Neil

Another tip. While aligning the prop shaft and motor I have found it useful to use a couple of lumps of blu tack. I used on both but on the tube, place a lump in the angle created by the tube emerging from the hull and again inside where the tube enters the hull. then press firmly into the blu tac too hold in the desired position and apply some glue. Alternatively apply glue before inserting tube and let the blu tac hold in position. Then make final adjustments to motor alignment Ie using shims before fixing.

HI Neil
Hope you are progressing the refit. I agree with Gregg cheap glue is not always suitable for our model boats. I believe some of it may be old stock and probably past its sell by date. Yes I have used it but it invariably requires lots of additional work and heat to make a joint and personally I prefer to use a branded product.
Regarding the splint this is a good idea. it will effectively line everything up nice and straight whilst you fit into the boat. You can buy bespoke solid fittings that fit between the motor and shaft, ensuring that everything is lined up correctly. Using a splint will work just as well and once everything is set you can remove the splint/fitting. As your shaft and motor are both loose you can install both at the same time. if your shaft were already fitted then you would only be able to adjust the motor position. Either way alignment is guaranteed and the set up will work at max efficiency. Good luck 😀

There's some really useful advice again.

I must admit I have learned through experience that you get what you pay for as I purchased a strip of super glue from a pound shop (guess how much!) when I was fitting one of the rubbing strakes and soon ended up doing it again - so I will be using some branded stuff for fixing the tube definitely.

I'm a little unsure on the advice about the splint - is this used when aligning the motor and the tube has been fitted or used both?

Hoping the tube is no big problem being as there was already a tube fitted but will try it all loose before going for final fix.

Off to Westbourne Models at weekend to get the shaft and a new mount for a weekend in the garage I think.

If using an epoxy resin for this purpose, Please use a well known brand and NOt the cheapo stuff available from "pound shops". The cheapo stuff reacts badly when Immersed in water and disintegrates in to a crumbly mess.

Neil. I would use an epoxy resin to glue in your shaft. Something like Araldite. Use in a warm room so the glue remains thin. Setting time gives you time to make final adjustments before the glue sets.lRe you motor I would suggest using astrip of cardboard wrapped arou n d the universal joint to Immobilise it, much like a splint. Tape the card as tight as you can and line up shaft and motor. When happy you can fix the motor in correct position. Remove the cardboard splint for final assembly. I used card from a corn flake packet wrapped around two or three times. you would be surprised how rigid this makes the coupling. Hopo this helps

Kevin

Just catching up on this Neil. Good news eh? The only thing I can add to the good advice already given is to pass on advice given to me by Dave- if you think you will carry on with this type of boating it's well worth investing a few quid in a wattmeter- best thing I ever did! it takes all the guess work out of matching up motors, esc's and props- it'll help with setting up the driveline too. This is assuming you haven't already got one.

Good luck with your restoration.

Ian

HI Neil
Sounds like you are nearly there. When you get your new tube and shaft it needs to be re-inserted into the hull. if the old glue is flaking away it will need to be removed. if sound and the new shaft fits you can key the outside of the shaft with some fine sandpaper and use epoxy to re-fit. Do make sure the fit is not bending the shaft and tube, if it is you need to open up the hole so that it is straight. This is also a good time to align the motor and shaft so you may wan't to connect it all up loose to see the fit, adjusting the hole in the hull accordingly. You can finish off by using car body filler to repair the hull where the tube exits. Don't forget to oil the shaft before final assembly 👍

My pleasure, check this out on ebay, item number 200638458535. You'll get the whole assembly in any length you like !
Roger

HI Roger
The outer tube has never been used but I definitely invest in a new shaft as the ends are showing signs of wear and damage were they have been vibrating in the extremely loose tube.

Many Thanks for advice Neil

Check the condition of the shaft and tube before refitting, the bearings must be a good fit and the shaft and tube must be straight. To be honest once I've felt the need to remove the assembly I always replace with new, it will be better and you get metric threads which make it much easier to experiment with different props. They are cheap on ebay, I use seller www.modelboatbits which are good quality and great service, they're also 8mm o/d which matches nicely with most older ones and will fit straight in; check that first though!
Roger

After checking the shaft was not bent I removed the motor mount completely leaving the motor free to move but supported by hand. Although there was the same whine and difficulty in starting the motor turning I was gob smacked to find how much easier the motor turned when it was moved to several different positions.

I bet you can Imagine how I happy I was at this point thinking I only had to sort out the mounting arrangement.

This was however short lived as I then decided to go for full power trials, but was disappointed to be deafened by a loud binding type squeak. No problem remembered Iain (video gallery post) saying about oiling the bearings once done things went quiet 😁

Full power trials started again with things all a little quieter I then noticed some vibration from the point where the tube passes through the hull and on closer inspection the paint around this area was starting to crack and it didn't take much to pick away a few bits of the glue which secures the tube. All things stopped at this point 😭

Then decided remove the motor, coupling and shaft and very gently attack the tube with a pair of pliers and twist the tube. A couple of cracks later and the tube was moving freely and slowly removed with no damage to the hull or paint work.

WHY DIDN'T I LISTEN TO YOU GUYS EARLIER - YOU ARE STARS AND SHOULD YOU BE PASSING GOSPORT HANTS I'LL BUY YOU A PINT OR TWO 👍

I am presuming that I now need to remove all the old glue make good the area and then re glue the shaft tube.

Have you got any tips on this next task, re installing the tube and what type of glue do I use??

CHEERS EVERYONE FOR YOUR ADVICE YOU'VE GENERATED A NEW LEVEL OF INTEREST FOR ME TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS RSTORATION.

Also check the inner shaft is straight by rolling it on a smooth flat surface such as kitchen worktop. A bent propshaft will cause noise, vibration and probaly binding which is evident from the motor's reluctance to start when power is applied.

HI Neil
Just to clarify. The bearings should ideally be a sliding fit to the shaft Ie slide freely without any binding. in your other post you refer to the end play between the shaft and tube - this should be minimal ( Rizla cigarette papers used to be used) and a thrust washer needs to be fitted at both ends, This takes up the pressure from the prop as it rotates. Without this the motor bearings will suffer from the pressure.
Regarding the wear in the bearings, this sloppiness will create an Imbalance and a smooth drive will be difficult or even Impossible to achieve, additionally the extra gap will allow water to work up the shaft by capillary action, this is another reason to fit a close fitting washer as it will help seal small misalignments.
If it were me I would be attempting to replace the bearing before removing the shaft. if you are already resigned to this course you may as well try this easier option first as you can be no worse off.
But do try just adjusting the motor first as this may save you any further effort. 😀

Dave & Gregg
I like the sound of removing the motor mount and running the motor whilst holding to see if the mount is too high as this seems a possible easy fix.
But after looking at the replies to date I'm possibly getting closer to removing the shaft tube as I have just compared the amount of play in the fitted tube against my new spare (which came with replacement shaft) and there is a considerable difference between the two even using the old shaft.
I think if this does become the only solution I think I will opt for a remove and replace of the tube. I'm presuming as one has already been fitted alignment will be so much simpler?

It sounds from the video clip that the motor is sitting too high in relation to the prop shaft, causing load on the universal joint.
As Dave suggests, remove some more wood from the motor mount till you are satisfied that the motor and shaft are in line with each other and try again.
Usingle universal joints will only take a little "out of alignment", maybe up to 2 - 3 degrees, any more and yes it will caus evibration, followed by u/j failure, normally in the middle of the pool/lake!

HI Neil
Seen the video and the advice given is spot on.
Motor mount: I can not deduce from the video if this is the cause of the binding. if you remove the motor mount and try running the motor whilst holding in you fingers you will feel any vibration and by moving the motor should achieve the best position. As mentioned on your video post using a low voltage and ammeter can help with this process. if this is your problem then you need to chop some more wood away from the mounting until you can get the same result with the motor mount connected. if this solves the problem then you need look no further, if not:
I suggest you remove the shaft and motor and look carefully at the bearings.
Its possible that the new shaft is too tight a fit on your old bearings. The video indicates some friction as the motor doesn't start very smoothly. Your prop and shaft should spin quite freely with no tight spots. if it is tight you may be able to use the threaded part of you new shaft to gently ream out the bearing. Do this one at a time with the shaft in the tube and pushing horizontally until you clear the high spots. A little oil will help.
If on the other hand you can see or feel any play they do need replacing. You mention you have replaced the prop shaft. Did yo by chance buy a prop shaft and tube with bearings? if so you will already have all you need. The actual bearings are a push fit into the ends of the prop shafts, and can usually be teased out with a pair of pliers by twisting both in opposite directions. I usually hold my tube in a vice. it can help to use a craft knife to start the process by gently cutting on the join line whilst rolling the prop tube on a flat surface. You can't do this on the installed tube but it will be held tight so just gripping the bearing and twisting should allow it to be removed. if you are lucky the new bearings will fit into the old tube.
As in most things in life there is no gain without pain and it maybe this is not feasible. if you have a friend with a lathe a new bearing can be easily made using the old bearing as a pattern and adjusting to your new prop shaft.
I believe the glue used was Cascamite which will now be rock hard and brittle. Shafts can and have been removed and whilst there will be some damage its not as major as you may think, and being a wooden hull restoration is relatively straightforward.
Good luck with your endeavours and hopefully a motor alignment will suffice. 😀

I have now posted a short clip in the video gallery for you to have a look see at - Nosiy Motor!

Dave many thanks for the quick reply.

The tube is still the original but I replaced the prop shaft as the propeller could not be removed and the threaded end had been squared off - presume to facilitate an Allen bolt securing arrangement to the original IC motor.
The new prop shaft as you point out is a metric one and I am using this in the original Imperial tube. The bit you mentioned about replacing both bearings is very interesting - are these readily available either on the internet or model shop?
Also can this replacement be done in situ as I am loathed to remove the original tube after the problems I had trying to remove the original motor mount which is attached by some crazy glue (photo attached of original and shows glue around the tube).
I have tried everything with aligning the motor and I believe the angle on the platform I fashioned out of the original wood mount is slightly shallow as the metal mount has to be bent slightly to achieve the right up and down angle on the shaft. The left right alignment is also a pain as the size of the motor prevents easy access to the screws but looking from above the alignment seems OK to the inexperienced eye.
The motor mount is for the Graupener 540/600 and the mounting screws fit no problem - however I have never really been that happy with it but at the time (4 years ago) it seemed the only around. Can you suggest another one?
It's a shame I can't upload the video as it would show you how bad this is and possibly give you a laugh.
Rather worryingly from what you have said it would seem the only way out of this is to replace the prop tube but I am really concerned about doing this as the glue is solid and I may cause damage to the hull (here's another problem some areas are quite thin which has been caused by rubbing down - next post I think) - do you have any easy way of removing the tube?

HI Neil
Welcome to the site.
Looks like you have made a good job of the restoration.
The noise you are experiencing is the result of the damage the original Ic engine did to the prop shaft. I'm assuming here that it is the original. I suspect there is a lot of free play between the prop shaft and the bearing and it's this that's making most of the noise. The alignment of the motor and prop shaft via the coupling is also Important. if this is out you can pack the motor with slivers of wood to correct. Loosening all the motor plate screws will allow you to adjust this with you fingers whilst running the motor, if its too high on the mounting you may need to remove some wood.
Back to the shaft - the damage may not be that bad and it is possible to remove the shaft and check for ware. Really worn shafts can have a definite ridge by the bearing at the engine end.
If you have access to a lathe then it is fairly simple to remove the damaged bearing from the end of the propshaft and make and fit a replacement.
Are you in a model club or is there a local model shop? it may be possible to buy a replacement shaft and replace both bearings and shaft in your model. This will save you having to take out the original tube. However the original equipment was probably Imperial and modern may well be metric and might not be compatible.
Hopefully just re-aligning the motor will solve most of the problem and you can work on the propshaft later. Just a final thought - the mounting to the motor is it the correct size? if this is not a tight fit you need to replace with the correct size. Any sloppiness here will create very bad vibration and can not be corrected.
Good luck and please keep us posted with your progress 😀