If you could get hold of a book called 'Ronde en Platbodem jachten' by Mr.Dr.T.Huitema, published in 1977, that has a wealth of plans and construction details of many different types of Dutch barge from the well known Boiers, Botters and Hoogars to many of the less known regional boats. The text is in Dutch of course, but it's the pictures that we are looking at.

Nerys

Yes thanks for that address. as I said i did play with radio control a/c for a while but then moved on to the real thing and did 30 years as a commercial pilot. I have now been retired 13 years and live in the whiled west of Ireland and no clubs within 200 miles. I do also play with a Myford lathe but just fancy the idea of building the dutch sailing barge not to sail just to build.

Roves are like washers only slightly domed. Copper nails are square sectioned. They were knocked through the two planks (or whatever), the rove put over the nail on the inside, the nail trimmed to about 1/8 inch and then tapped with the ball of a small hammer until it was flattened onto the rove, tightening it up and holding it on. The apprentice would be underneath the boat holding a lump of metal with a round protrusion, called a dolly, against the head of the nail so that it would not be knocked out by the work going on inside. There would be a nail about every four inches along the length of the plank.

Hope that's understandable.

Nerys

"roves" Nerys ???
Showing my higorance again 🤔
Roving rivets? 😮
No wonder the apprentice had problems!!😁
😎

Hi Ted,
I'm a great admirer of the many and varied Dutch Barges and am surprised that there is only one kit available in the UK. I have been contemplating building one for some time. I have several books (Dutch) which give very good drawings of many different types, but I don't think they are really adequate to build a model from. I think when I've finished my current programme of Thames Barge building I might tackle a Dutchman but that would be a somewhat hit and miss effort based on my interpretation of the drawings.

All this is not the slightest use to you, but I want you to know that somebody else has a similar desire.

I agree with you Colin,
I ask some silly question knowing that I will get proper answers and maybe a few comical ones.
Also when new Guys read the threads they will know that they will be helped no matter how silly a question may seem.

Martin555.

Welcome aboard Ted.
Your in the right place to find what you want here. Sometimes you may have to wait a whole day for the replies to arrive as some members have jobs, and as you can see from the site we are all around the world.
A world that's shrunk with the passion for boating.
Happy hunting and don't worry about asking daft questions.
Cheers Colin.

Mantua make a kit for one - Constructo used to make a Botter (Dutch barge) - out of production but you may find on eBay. I have a plan of a Barge Yacht - not quite the same thing - but Dodgy is right in that you should start on something simpler to get your hand in again - the EeZeBilts have the advantage of being relatively inexpensive whilst the Mantua Kit is in the region of 130 euros plus postage.

With radio controlled aircraft beginners were warned against seeing the hobby on the telly and wanting to go out and build a 10ft 4 engine Lancaster as their first model.

Boats are not so bad, but it is still a good idea to start with a simple model to learn the ropes. I have a web site with free plans for beginners models at http://www.eezebilt.tk , but you may find a commercial kit more to your taste..?

If you have not touched radio control for a long time, you may also need to familiarise yourself with the changes in radio and electric power which have taken place - depending on how long 100 years is!

The common advice is to find a club near you - at the least find a place near you where you can sail - and talk to people with model boats there. That's the way to get practical tips about being able to follow this hobby in your chosen location...

Hello, I am a new boy. I used to make radio controlled a/c when I was a teen and early 20's but that was a hundred years ago.!!! I was in Holland this year and saw a dutch fishing barge model so fancy having a go at building same.
Has any one got plans or advice as to how to go about this.
I think I will need some words from seasoned builders if i am to be able to do this. Thank you.

The old saying was, 'paint and putty hide a multitude of sins'.

Nerys

Gravedigger 47 has some really nice clinker built life boats in his harbour ,I remember there being a how to build a clinker boat not long ago ,again I think it was gravedigger.
Cheers Marky👍

Many boatbuilders will say that it is easier to build clinker than carvel. A clinker built boat is built up the right way around temporary moulds. Each plank is rivetted, copper nails and roves, to the previous plank, usually about every four inches. A tedious job, particularly for the apprentice who is underneath the boat holding a 'dolly' against the head of every nail as it is rivetted on the inside. When planking is s complete, the moulds are removed, the timbers are steamed, pushed into place and held with copper nails, then rivetted. A carvel built boat is built around the permanent frames of the boat and the planks fastened to them, planks have to be cut very accurately. I think it's a question of what one is most used to.

Knowing your ability as a model builder, Ken, I do not think you would have any difficulty with building in clinker. I know how well you can think things out. Please finish Veronica first, but you could always build her barge's boat.

The general shape of the German lifeboat is very similar to the typical clinker built boat built to the Board of Trade Standards although it looks as if it was steel as eventually happened in the UK. Being built with a motor was not usual until I would think, the 60's and then there was often only one motorised lifeboat on the average ship, the rest would be oar driven.

Further search brought this from early model maker - Thames Watermans boat from the series by Arthur Pollard - if anyone wants a better scan please pm me.
The German lifeboat (note size of motor shown) is a low resolution pic in my digital collection.

Neither have I Ken, but it looks kinda tricky to me.
I guess you'd have to be soooo precise with the plank cutting, shaping and fitting😮
No cheating with filler 🤔
Ciao, Doug 😎

False modesty Ken? 😉
Since when has clinker build been simple 😮
Cheers, Doug 😎

Nice useful little workboat, could be found anywhere even if that drawing is German.

Found this little feller as well - not exactly a plan - and not a double ender - but similar in a way - the only ships lifeboat I have a drawing of is German - bit different,
Will continue looking.........

The standard ship's lifeboat as used to be found on merchant ships and of which I think the original photo on this post is a conversion, were a pretty hefty clinker built boat. The most popular sizes were 24ft, 26ft and 28ft, thirty footers were not so common, with a beam of 8ft plus. They were built by many small boat building companies to Board of Trade Standards. Typically they were larch planking on ash timbers. They had copper buoyancy tanks built in under the side thwarts and would be fully equipped with oars, mast and a standing lugsail, fresh water and emergency rations. If you look at a film of WW2 ships being sunk, the crew would be trying to get away in one of these boats. They could frequently be purchased because after a few years of use, or with the slightest amount of damage, they had to be replaced. At the end of WW2 hundreds were sold and became 'yachts' using the term loosely or work boats. It was a cheap and easy way of acquiring a boat and many of us aspiring yachtsmen just post war started our boating careers in such a boat.

That's what I was thinking of Nerys.
The John Lambert plans I thought about are for the typical 27ft ship's whaler.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Lovely, that's a Montague Whaler 27ft of rowing and sailing delight. The standard ships boat of the Royal Navy from about 1900 to 1960 they were designed by Admiral Montague in the 1890's to replace a number of varied small craft. They were built in two sizes at first, 24ft and 27ft. but the larger boat prevailed. Although they were used by the navy as a workboat, they were really intended more for recreational purposes, their narrow beam meant that they sailed and rowed well but were not a good stable working platform for civilian use. They had a centreboard and were rigged with a jib, a standing lug mainsail and a little bermudan mizzen. A friend of mine had one in the 1970's which he used to sail around the East Swale but I believe she ended up in the Liverpool Maritime Museum.

Not quite the ship's lifeboat we are looking for, but close.

Nerys

This looks to be a fairly similar hull - if you ignore the sails

Thank you Colin, sounds as if a meal as well as an ice cream might be on the cards. A run over to Aberaeron could be a nice change from shed and barge building.

As a clinker built open workboat you could get a lot of ideas from a coble as to the layout for a boat similar to the one being queried. A lot of cobles were kept as open motor boats. Some of the bigger ones had wheelhouses, usually up forr'ard that gave them the fishing trawler impression. The originals were of course sail and oar, just like the ship's lifeboat we were talking about originally and another similarity, they both carried lugsails. As I said in a post elsewhere, have a look at the Sailing Coble Museum if you are ever in Bridlington.

See what you mean Ken 👍

Hm!
Don't look quite right in the fore and aft profiles Ken?
😎

Hi Nerys,
Here is the website,
www.thehiveaberaeron.com
Cheers Colin.

Hi Colin,
I've been to Aberaeron quite a few times, but I've never seen the honey ice cream, see if we can't go there soon for a little run out and look for it. I've been without a real boat for about six years now, I reached a stage where I just wasn't agile enough to manage and I'm even worse now. Have to make do with the occasional trip boat like the Copperjack that runs up the Tawe from Swansea Marina.

Cheers,
Nerys

Hi Nerys, and don't forget the hive on the Quay for its honey ice cream.
We no longer have real boats, but my family go fishing regularly out of Aberystwyth and Newquay when we can borrow a boat.
Cheers Colin.

Hi Colin,
It's not me, it's Jacko who posted the picture but I seem to have taken over whilst trying to help. Your fishing boat sounds fun especially sailing out of Aberaeron. We go over there occasionally, especially if we have visitors, interesting place and a good fish and chip restaurant!

cheers,
Nerys

Hi Nerys,
One of my dads boats was similar to your picture, a 22ft clinker built Hull that he acquired as a project from Carmarthen about 30 years ago. It had been used as an inshore fisher. Was fitted with a 3 cylinder yanma diesel. We built a stern cuddy/wheelhouse. I'll ask my mum if she has any pictures of it. We used it for 3 years as our family fishing boat with my wife and I, 4 sisters and their husbands, and 4 children 2 dogs sailing out for a days fishing out of Aberaeron in cardigan Bay. Great times in all weather's.
Cheers Colin.

It should be possible to get the plans for a clinker built lifeboat. They were all built to a standard, but every boat builder had his own interpretation, but they turned out fairly similar. Conversions were even more hit and miss, no two were alike, every owner/builder had his own ideas varying from one I remember that had been 'Rison' by 6ft, looking like a block of flats and, like Sunbeam, mentioned in a previous post, with no raising of the topsides at all. In this case it looks as if a simple wheelhouse has been added with a lot of working space.

Cheers,
Nerys

Flattery will get you (almost!) anywhere Nerys😉

Should be fairly easy to find a plan for the hull, but I doubt we'll find exactly that boat.
So a little fantasy and creativity may be needed for wheelhouse and fittings!
Little side job for Martin555 perhaps?😁
Cheers 😎

Hi Doug,
Always nice when you agree with me, it's good confirmation.

Talking of ships lifeboats. I'm going back to the late forties, there was one called Sunbeam that used to dominate the 'sailing cruiser ' class in the local regattas racing with a varied collection of 'proper' yachts. She was 24ft, she'd had a false keel bolted on. No attempt at a cabin, just half decked like a day boat and rigged as a gaff cutter, topsail, flying jib, the lot, but could she sail. Probably the real secret was her owner, a retired pilot.

Cheers,
Nerys

I agree Nerys.
In which case John Lambert plans may be a good place to start.
I'll have a rummage through my collection.
Cheers, Doug 😎

Looks to me like a converted lifeboat.

Sorry, but that may not be a familiar term to all. In the years immediate post war, an easy way to buy a boat was to acquire a ship's lifeboat. They were clinker built, usually 24, 26 or 28ft and could be bought for £30 or so. I had an 18ft ship's jolly boat for £15. They were converted for pleasure or work use in all sorts of ways. Built up topsides to give standing room cabins as motor cruisers, adding on false keels to make into sailing boats, or just like the picture, add a wheelhouse and make a working boat. I could carry on at will but won't bore everyone. Anyway, that's what she reminds me of.