Looks very good, and it's 'authentically positioned' too.
I'm sure that the 'why is it offset' question will crop up from time to time from admirers so be prepared to tell them the reasons 😀.
Keep up the great work.
Robbob.

Stern light made and fitted today. Fitted off centre like the original which helped to avoid the flagstaff mount.

Sure you are correct. I had to battle with mine on the model as I incorrectly fitted it in the centre.so they possibly had same problem on the real one.
Now making me think of changing mine to make it correct. I like things as near as possible to the real boats

Just getting back to my 46" crash tender after a long holiday.
Looking at the various plans and pictures could the offset be because of the rather large Stern Post which is probably about 6" square in the centre of the real boats stern.
So retro fitting the light would be easier to fit off centre in the planked area. Just a thought

Hi , thanks for information / ideas 😊they have been very useful ~ Ray

Hi,
Nice job.
In the past I have installed cabin lights using white LED's (as that is all I had left) and coloured them with yellow felt tip pen.

Martin.

with regard to lights,

white at top of mast just use an led that fits in the mast and run the wires inside. I ditched the white metal mast, its weak, and a bit of a mess imo. Its not too difficult to make one from some cheap brass.

green and red nav lights (I used the tips from pens to replicate the shapes of the mountings)

blue front of wheelhouse under the mast stand (see number 72 on attachment)

white search light

much talk of the white stern light! but no mention in any of the Vosper paperwork, (but it is on one of the pictures)

Then if you want to illuminate inside the cabins etc, I used pygmy bulbs to give the yellow look

It now all depends on the level of detail you want. I made my mast to fold as per the original, I read that the unusual shape of the mast legs was due to the fact they used plane propeller blades (RAF boat don't forget) they do resemble this, but its a nice story!

Very nice job John,
Well planned.

Martin.

Hi Martin, it's pretty tight but I've made provision for accessing everything but the steering 'quadrants' but they should be ok for life (hopefully!) otherwise I would have to make another hatch at the stern. The front hatches are hinged, behind them is the large access hatch with the lazarette (which also comes off, as do the other 2). The second lazarette has the REC sw under it, the wheelhouse lifts out, (the top of the wheelhouse also is removable, held by magnets and has spring contacts for the riding light). Wheelhouse unplugs (JST plug) from the light circuit
Behind that is the large engine hatch and then the 3rd lazarette which has the aux light sw under it. Both the life lines and the aerial are clipped on with springs and are removable. Large hatches are held down with toggles at each corner. Mast can be unbolted if needs be. Took a bit of work but seems to have done the job.
John B

Hi JB,
That's a lot of equipment packed in that boat.
My question is if anything went wrong can you get at every thing to replace or repair it ?
Is the hole deck removable ?

Martin.

Ik, That's quite an easy set up compared to what I had to deal with on the 36" HSL as I had a lot to fit in a small space. The center of the boat is inaccessible due to the wheelhouse (which is removable) having a drop floor, (apart from 1 1/2"under it where the ESCs and one speaker sit) and the bow area originally having no large hatches. I had to make one to get the 2 sound units (plus speakers) and radio gear in. Rear deck behind the engine room is the same with only one lazarette and the dinghy on top. I didn't want to make another non standard hatch, so I managed with the space that I had. Had to do a similar thing to my 36" Thornycroft MTB.
Thought about transfer boxes (see pics) but was too much work to get all the angles right, (although the one with a motor might be tempting on a future build) and motor space wasn't wide enough. Also the weight in the stern was another factor, (sits too deep in the water at the stern already but luckily runs nicely anyway.)
It's fine if you don't have floors or interior detail, as you have a lot more room to play with, but I prefer to keep everything up off the bottom in case water gets in. Also the floors give you somewhere to place everything on a flat surface .
John B

John B
Not sure if this clip helps you or not, what ever it is worth a look.
If there is not room for that, even if you lengthened the centre shaft to bring the outboard motors nearer the centre line. Then what about this thought. UK supplier Cornwall Model Boats and others do gear packs. If you can get 1:1 gear sets. mount between two perspex sheets with suitable bearings to form a dropped drive line with input and out put on the same side. Make two units and mount on port and starboard shafts with the motors aft, over the shafts. If you are short of width angle the gear sets inwards at the top to bring the motors closer. Then just mount the centre motor direct on the end of the centre shaft in the conventional way, With a bit of luck and good model engineering all three motors will be accessible through the same aperture. Just a thought for you. It of course could be totally wrong too!

Be nice if someone made a small V drive for this type of application IK but most of the car ones are too bulky or part of a gearbox (hence was thinking of a modified transfer box) trouble with those is gearing as well, because most of them are for rock crawlers. I may find something eventually and have a bit of a play too see if I can get 1:1 . Was also looking at car gear sets with a view to making my own. Most PT boats HSLs and MTBs etc were all center V drive set up as you would know so it would be nice to be able to have the correct set up (even if only for personal satisfaction.)

Sounds good to me John B, it is down to what point on the boats time line you select to model.
But space is not a new problem. Take a look at our RNLI Trent Class Lifeboats. They have staggered engines, one is direct straight in line and the other is on a Vee Drive facing the other way round. Apparently there is not enough clearance between the engines side by side, and they started with a blank sheet of paper!!

Yes Maggie, 360° visibility, but white.
It's the anchor light.
See my post below for the angles of visibility for the various lights.
I think we're all agreed the stern light is white.
A yellow "I'm Towing" light doesn't seem to have been fitted.
If at all it would have been lower on the mast and facing aft, or possibly on the rear cabin?
Who knows?🙄
Cheers, Doug 😎
PS measure the internal diameter of the fitting from the kit and get a white LED that fits inside 😎

Hi Rob ,
Thanks , was the mast light 360 degrees The white metal fitting that comes with the kit has a molding top of mast that would indicate 360 degrees any idea how I can get the lamp ~ I have seen brass lamps that are 360 degrees clear green lenses , not sure this would look right on top of mast , sorry forgot the light on the wheelhouse forward . Appreciate all the advice you give regards Ray

True Martin, although sometimes, for some models it can be down to a lack of room, (my HSL for instance.) I was trying to figure out how to fit 3 motors in original layout (2 facing back and one forward with a v-drive) and was even looking at model car transfer boxes but it all got too constipated and I went with 2 and the pump as the third (It did have 2 Greys GM 671 diesels in later RNZAF life so I'm probably safe)😀
John B

"One or two prop shafts"
If like most model makers the drawings show two then we fit two, but again personal choice and of course depends on your budget.

Martin.

John and Martin Thank you for tolerating the slight deviation. You both make very sound valid arguments regarding the finer details of a boat.
A very experienced warship builder I know often asks how far away you will be when examining a model. A foot, two foot or what ever. Then scale that up for say a 1/96 model destroyer and at 1 foot off you are viewing at 96 feet. After a tear or two of service and many coats of paint how many rivets can you see? There comes a point when scale accuracy just has to stop. My actual question was actually more aimed at the fact we were tied up in the detail of the finish, paint, and lights but there had been no comments that it only had one shaft and not two, or does that not matter as it is underwater?
I guess I have talked this back to personal preference etc. Good Night all

Quite true Martin, my question has always been, 'are you building a model for yourself, or to a standard that someone else thinks you should be building it to'. In the end, as I've previously mentioned, most people who really knew anything about most of the old boats we like to build are dead or close to it.
Most boats were modified by their crews to suit personal taste or practical needs (just pick any boat and look at all the pictures you can find of that boat and see how many mods were made, - some you won't even be able to see) so which version do you pick? You will never achieve 100% scale! just have fun with what you do!!
John B

I know we have deviated slightly from the original topic.
But I also know some model makers that look at the plans and see that a certain part has six rivets and make sure that they fit exactly six rivets but then let themselves down by the thickness of of the plate that they fix the rivets to.
So to get true scale every thing will have to be considered, also as you know to achieve this true scale would end up a lifetimes work just for one model.
One other thing is the year that the model is made for, say for instance a boat in 1957 has no aft light fitted but in 1958 it has a light fitted.

Martin.

Martin. Spot on! Enjoyment is paramount. Did you meet your goal, for your skill set, and did it sail well? If it does that then it is a winner in my book. As I have some real one to one scale exposure I guess I have a leaning towards operations, can I mimic the real ship. If I am anywhere kind of close with a good looking, my opinion, boat the I have enjoyment It is a hobby after all.

Hi,
I think that it is a matter of personal choice and skill level.
Some model makers want there models to be scale perfect right down to the padlock on a locker. (depending on scale size)
Other just want a good looking boat so that they can enjoy a few hours lake side.
In my opinion each model you make you tend to want to make it better than the previous one, that's in turn leads to more research and the determination to get it scale perfect.
On the other hand I have also seen model boats that look as if it is just two bits of wood nailed together.
The main thing is as long as the model maker is happy with what they have achieved and enjoying it then that's all that this hobby is all about.

Martin.

My thoughts have always been to keep everything the same as real boat as is practically possible. Meaning props and, rudders should be the same as the real boat.

Going back a tad to the thread around i month ago when MaggieM and Robbob discussed planked or painted decks.
Comments were made about a shinny RAF Fireboat at Warwick, which is a very good friends project. His is 93. What else is in the photo is 94 built by another good friend. Much has been made in this thread about scale models and correct paint, plus position of, and colour of stern lights on these boats.( and the research too)
So there is an element of modellers licence or personal preference, which has been discussed in depth. The is fine!
However I would like to ask you guys as to how far you go with "License" As while 93 is a great model and sails very well, it scares the hell out of us all with the wake at full throttle. There is a glaring deviation from prototype design! The model is only single screw, and not twin as per prototype! Before you ask there is a barn like space inside her so it is not a space issue. So if it is twin screw prototype should it be a twin screw model? Would you mark it down as a judge in a scale competition? Thoughts anyone, before I leave the country!!!.

White it is then.

As to it being on the centre line then that may be a little more obscure. It is all down to how the light is observed, its actual visible arc of light. Take a look at how many different positions the stern lights are on RNLI Tamar class lifeboats!!
Time to turn in

no disrespect taken Commander Unfortunately the Gobbledegook is how these documents are written at government level.

No disrespect to ikseno99 but I think I prefer Doug's research findings.
Plus I don't want to read 200 pages of Anglo/French gobbledegook that has apparently no references to maritime lighting requirements anyway.
Robbob.

Seems to have turned up in 1948 Ian
"Marine navigation lights

In 1838 the United States passed an act requiring steamboats running between sunset and sunrise to carry one or more signal lights; colour, visibility and location were not specified. In 1846 the United Kingdom passed legislation enabling the Lord High Admiral to publish regulations requiring all sea-going steam vessels to carry lights.[1] The admiralty exercised these powers in 1848 and required steam vessels to display red and green sidelights as well as a white masthead light whilst under way and a single white light when at anchor.[2] In 1849 the U.S. Congress extended the light requirements to sailing vessels. In 1889 the United States convened the first International Maritime Conference to consider regulations for preventing collisions. The resulting Washington Conference Rules were adopted by the U.S. in 1890 and became effective internationally in 1897. Within these rules was the requirement for steamships to carry a second mast head light.
The international 1948 Safety of Life at Sea Conference recommended a mandatory second masthead light solely for power driven vessels over 150 feet in length and a fixed sternlight for almost all vessels. The regulations have changed little since then.[3]
Basic lighting
Basic lighting configuration. 2=a vessel facing directly towards observer; 4=vessel facing away from the observer.

To avoid collisions, vessels mount navigation lights that permit other vessels to determine the type and relative angle of a vessel, and thus decide if there is a danger of collision. In general sailing vessels are required to carry a green light that shines from dead ahead to 2 points (​22 1⁄2°) abaft[note 1] the beam on the starboard side (the right side from the perspective of someone on board facing forward), a red light from dead ahead to two points abaft the beam on the port side (left side) and a white light that shines from astern to two points abaft the beam on both sides. Power driven vessels, in addition to these lights, must carry either one or two (depending on length) white masthead lights that shine from ahead to two points abaft the beam on both sides. If two masthead lights are carried then the aft one must be higher than the forward one.[4] Hovercraft at all times and some boats operating in crowded areas may also carry a yellow flashing beacon for added visibility during day or night.
Lights of special significance

In addition to red, white and green running lights, a combination of red, white and green Mast Lights placed on a mast higher than all the running lights, and viewable from all directions, may be used to indicate the type of craft or the service it is performing. See "Quick Guide" in external links.

Ships at anchor display one or two white anchor lights (depending on the vessel's length) that can be seen from all directions. If two lights are shown then the forward light is higher than the aft one.
Boats classed as "small" are not compelled to carry navigation lights and may make use of a handheld torch."

Here the Lighting Rules with layout pics.
http://www.bosunsmate.org/seamanship/lights.php
Seems the yellow towing light is actually a second light above the stern light. I've also seen them low on the mast facing aft!
So for the Fire boats I guess that's a normal white stern light.
Cheers, Doug.

A bit heavy for me.

Martin.

oh flip I missed the link out sorry guys

Hi I realise this is some what behind the thread, but I do wonder if the Towing Light is correct. It would be for today and possibly this millennium but back in the 1950's I wonder. There are 200 plus pages in the attached IMO link and not some much as a peep about Nav Lights, which seem to appear in the 1972 versions. The is if you wish to be a pedantically accurate scale modeller, your call. Do not forget to scale up the distance you are viewing a model at, so many have there nose stuck to he model, so at 1/24 you are 24 inches away for every inch you are away from the model. So a couple of foot becomes 48 real feet, Time for a rest now as that is all to hard for an average modeller

I'll believe you Rob, thousands wouldn't! 😉😋

Not at all....just historicaly accurate....Ahem..😜

Chicken 😉

Hi Paul.
I dodged the issue by building mine as No 94.
No evidence of a stern light on that at any point 😁.

reminded me of the time I wired up my four footer, I had pygmy bulbs in the cabins etc, as they gave off a yellow more authentic light, and used "modellers license" on the rest with led's just so they could be seen.
The light under the mast cradle was blue, I remember deliberating over the rear light but as it was off centre, I didn't do it as I reckon everyone would be thinking its been fitted wrong!

"Silly?"
But wouldn't it look REALLY great as a Dressed Ship fore and aft😊 and two strings up the mast as a Christmas Tree? 💥🎁💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡💡

Now you're just being silly Mike 😉

Brake light? then its red? confusing or what!
I've got some LEDS that show red, blue, green, yellow. in rotation that would cover all eventualities.

Hi All.
I just remembered that I found this photo way back in Oct 2016 while researching the Crash Tenders, damned if I can remember where I found it though 😭
It shows No 93 in dry dock either during construction or possibly during a re-fit. No stern light on it at this point.
Note that one of the engines appears to be in a cradle on the floor to the left.
Rob.

Hi Rob,
"Don't forget that the boat was equipped with a 'Towing Hook' so yellow would be a legitimate colour for a stern light in such a situation.
Perhaps the later fitting of the light was because of an oversight in the original Ministry of Supply specification"
My thoughts exactly Rob👍 and probably why the light had to be fitted off centre.
Although I might go straight away for a 5mm medium brightness (ca 8 to 10kLumen) yellow LED.
Happy lamp-fitting folks 😉, Cheers, Doug

Hmmm.....yellow...interesting thought Doug!
Don't forget that the boat was equiped with a 'Towing Hook' so yellow would be a legitimate colour for a stern light in such a situation.
Perhaps the later fitting of the light was because of an oversight in the original Ministry of Supply specification 🤔
I suppose if you choose a white LED with a 32k colour temperature (tungsten) instead of 56K (daylight) it would look more authentic.
Just a suggestion..😀
Rob.

Yep Michael, unless of course it's the boat's brake light!?😁
Only other possibility is yellow, but ONLY if the boat is towing something.
Any other colour would be confusing.
Cheers, Doug.

Thanks to all for the debate, Ill include it in my build - all agreed its white ?

Evenin' Rob, I also believe it should be white.👍
Standard colour for an aft running light.
Probably off centre cos of some piece of kit stuck on the inside of the transom.
Pic of 93 is the same as I have. Taken in Portsmouth apparently.
Here's another, large scale, of 93 testing her monitors.
Doug 😎

Here are some photos like the other post also light fitted in my crash Tender. Afraid I made the mistake of putting it centre didn’t notice it was off centre

Yes it is off centre, not sure why though 🤔.
I think it should be white but there's probably an expext opinion on the maritime rules and regs for it.
Rob.

Either it isn’t in the middle, or the numbers aren’t!

Excuse my ignorance, but what colour would it be?

Hi All.
You can see the stern light in these 'photos.
I think it must have been a later addition to the boat.
I've never seen it included in any model so go for it!
Robbob.