HI Coedleys,
Glad to see the model is progressing. Take note of the two very good points from Lyle. Spray rails will help your model plane and a balanced rudder always works better than an unbalanced one.
Looking forward to seeing the finished model
Dave

HI Lyle,

Thanks for your message. I'm going to install a new prop shaft anyway. How far away from the rudder to you reckon the prop should sit?

HI mate, back again from the colony, somebody spoke of spray rails should be built on your model already , well I do not presume upon prior builders always doing it right. There should be say 3/16 by 3/16 inch wooden strips at the chine where the side skins and lower hull sheets meet. These are what I referred to as helping in lift . The hull skin should flare at the bottom of the spray rail so that the base of the hull is a bit more in surface area ans try to keep the spray rail the 3/16 inch width towards the bow as this Imparts the larger lifting area at the transition point where the water recedes as the hull lifts higher as speed increases and the little extra surface area helps SO much in lift. Most modellers scrape this area of the spray rail down thin to flare with the hull. it is a choice between looks and performance. You can carefully re glue and reshape wooden spray rails as I have done it on my large seaplane tender ( scale I built at about 49 inches or so) to Improve lift AFTER it was finished and running. I just sanded the spray rail back and reshaped and flared extra strips and pegged them with wooden dowels for strength after glueing and redid them and on my Fast Patrol Boat, the old Veron 56 inch). So it all helps even to modify the model that bit extra, after finishing, after running in, after you learn something new!
Rudder distance from the prop? Er, well a hard one to answer precisely say, the latter part of the prop is a 1/4 inch away from the leading edge of the rudder. ALSO if you reduce the 'front section' of the rudder, so that all the
'meat' is abaft the pivot post, is not a good idea as rudders need a bit of meat ( rudder area) ahead of the post to actually ' help' the rudder to turn as it acts as a forward lever to assist the latter area to turn on the pivot. Even vertical tail fins of aircraft (not all) had/have some forward fin area ahead of the pivot point. A lot of heavy bombers of WW2 design and a lot of light planes designed and built since. Remember water and air can exhibit similar behaviors despite differing densities. Hope this helps a bit more, See ya Lyle.

HI Coedleys, welcome! most of us have gone through your pain, my boat was a lot worse!
Now, rudder, as mentioned before, don't worry about it for now, its an easy swop later when testing, most of the boats on here have very different set ups and performance, it depends what you want. if its reasonable scale speed, your rudder might be ok. With my boat, I wanted very fast, I needed a much narrower rudder, like a race boat, as the rudder your size was acting like a brake in turns and was causing the bow to submarine. The down side is I cant really do tight turns.

Try to stay on one subject at a time, otherwise you are going to get lost. Look at all the videos on here, pick the sort of performance you find acceptable for yourself, and see what the set up is for that particular boat.
Shaft, get mole grips on it, and twist it out, you have to be brutal! SHG Marine do good props and shafts, make sure its ballraced at motor end if its going to be reasonably fast, I don't really like the standard brass bushings, I got from SHG glacier bearings for the prop end, they lubricate with water. Give them a ring, very helpful. I see from your position, are you North Wales, if so, there is a model show at Ellesmere Port boat museum this march, might be worth a trip over? For fittings, Scale models at Skelmersdale has white metal monitors, they need a bit of work to clean them up, but are cheap, and Steve is very helpful.
Spray rails, not sure what you mean, the ones on the hull, if so, they should already be there, or are you referring to the deck rails? They are just glued on, evergreen plasticard has a range that will do, again, check out SHG downloaded catalogue. Also, model exchange on the North wales coast road (where the market is, Flint?) have a lot of building materials and stuff for boats, but not specific to Fireboat, worth a rummage though!
Wheelhouse roof, wondering why you want to take it off? I did, as I wanted a removable roof. The new one was made from 1.5mm plasticard over a plywood form. its a very complex shape, and very difficult, I have to admit it was done for me by HS93 on this forum, he is a real craftsman (ta Peter!). it has a fold down mast which is real cool!
If you are going back to wood, check out the bow, they have atendancy to leak and the ply laminates split. Mine was rotton, I had to replace it. I use halfords resin inside to reseal, and fibreglassed all the deck and cabin sides to stop the wood splitting. Quite an easy job.
Hope this helps, keep the questions coming, if you go to Ellesmere let me know, I will prob be there!


HI Im tom logon name boatshed.
regarding your rudder, Im now getting back into model boating, and from earlier powerboating with models I was once advised to do away with the leading edge of the rudder "ie" cut it away to as near as the post as you can with out damaging the soldering and this was a gerat idea as it gave you a better turn at speed and stopped the rudder acting as a brake.
hope this may help you.

HI Coedleys, welcome! most of us have gone through your pain, my boat was a lot worse!
Now, rudder, as mentioned before, don't worry about it for now, its an easy swop later when testing, most of the boats on here have very different set ups and performance, it depends what you want. if its reasonable scale speed, your rudder might be ok. With my boat, I wanted very fast, I needed a much narrower rudder, like a race boat, as the rudder your size was acting like a brake in turns and was causing the bow to submarine. The down side is I cant really do tight turns.

Try to stay on one subject at a time, otherwise you are going to get lost. Look at all the videos on here, pick the sort of performance you find acceptable for yourself, and see what the set up is for that particular boat.
Shaft, get mole grips on it, and twist it out, you have to be brutal! SHG Marine do good props and shafts, make sure its ballraced at motor end if its going to be reasonably fast, I don't really like the standard brass bushings, I got from SHG glacier bearings for the prop end, they lubricate with water. Give them a ring, very helpful. I see from your position, are you North Wales, if so, there is a model show at Ellesmere Port boat museum this march, might be worth a trip over? For fittings, Scale models at Skelmersdale has white metal monitors, they need a bit of work to clean them up, but are cheap, and Steve is very helpful.
Spray rails, not sure what you mean, the ones on the hull, if so, they should already be there, or are you referring to the deck rails? They are just glued on, evergreen plasticard has a range that will do, again, check out SHG downloaded catalogue. Also, model exchange on the North wales coast road (where the market is, Flint?) have a lot of building materials and stuff for boats, but not specific to Fireboat, worth a rummage though!
Wheelhouse roof, wondering why you want to take it off? I did, as I wanted a removable roof. The new one was made from 1.5mm plasticard over a plywood form. its a very complex shape, and very difficult, I have to admit it was done for me by HS93 on this forum, he is a real craftsman (ta Peter!). it has a fold down mast which is real cool!
If you are going back to wood, check out the bow, they have atendancy to leak and the ply laminates split. Mine was rotton, I had to replace it. I use halfords resin inside to reseal, and fibreglassed all the deck and cabin sides to stop the wood splitting. Quite an easy job.
Hope this helps, keep the questions coming, if you go to Ellesmere let me know, I will prob be there!

HI Lyle,

Thanks for your message. I'm going to install a new prop shaft anyway. How far away from the rudder to you reckon the prop should sit?

Hello there from the colony,You do need spray rails as they help the hull to lift and plane as every bit helps ( even with electric)on the crash boat.See my early shots of my crash tender which is I/c powered. Though your prop position is rather 'very'far away from the rudder ,. you should stay with the present rudder size , till the trials are finished on the pond , whenever that occurs!. As the prop wash gap may physically be far from the rudder the prop wash and water disturbance forces of such a large rudder area may assist in the hull turning against and through water density when under power, whatever motor is used. Lyle.

coedlys
I have sent you a private message, please reply to it with your address and I will get you some drawings in the post.
it is on A3 size sheets, so is a bit of a jigsaw

db

HI Coedlys
I removed the prop shaft on my 34" Firetender. Not easy as you say but is possible. I dug out as much of the epoxy as possible using knives, chisels and a dremel with various tools. Please take care as it is easy for sharp items to slip. I wear kevlar gloves just in case. Eventually you will reach a stage where the shaft can be gripped in pliers and twisted (as if the shaft were jammed and the motor was turning) free without too much damage to the hull. it is then fairly easy to pull the whole shaft out from the prop end. Make sure you check carefully for any splits in the hull when you have finished as they will need to be repaired. Good luck. Dave

HI db

I think you were right first time. I dry stripped the egg shell like paint which came off easily. The rest is well adhered to the hull and would probably be more of a hassle than it's worth to strip. Filling and paintind is probably the best option.

Any idea how I can get the wheelhouse roof off without wrecking everything? Also need to remove the prop shaft but it's epoxied in pretty solid!

Have ordered fittings and would love a photocopy of your plans if that's possible.

Many thanks.

hI again

if the paint is really old and brittle and seperating from the hull.. you should be able to dry strip it without using a chemical stripper, try stripping the paint off with a really sharp chisel, keeping the flat side of the chisel against the wood.
its well worth the effort to add Spray rails and it will be quite easy to install once all the paint is stripped, I have added them to mine after stripping,I wetted the strips and taped them to the hull to get them to shape first, then used aliphatic resin wood glue to fix them, just take your time and don't try to stick em on in one hit, you may need to re wet them.

I have some photo copies of the original plan for the 34" fire boat, a really usefull reference for locating fittings etc. (no bulkhead or former details)

p.m. me if you would like a copy

db

Thanks Robert + db.

I'll have a look again tonight but I'm pretty sure I won't get away with not stripping the paint. it's peeling off like an egg shell on many parts of the underside of the hull. I'm going to order a set of fittings from model slipway today. I think you're right about the rudder db - I thought it was a bit on the large size - if I remember correctly there was a much smaller rudder on it. Can't remember why I put this one on it.

Another thing I've noticed is that everyone else's boat seems to have some sort of spray rail around the hull. Mine hasn't. is this essential? How difficult would it be to add one?

HI and welcome to the group! nice Aerokits Fireboat!

best trawl through the photo gallery and the build blogs on here, most of us know your pain, I am writing my restoration blogs on here at the moment.

you might get away with just sanding and filling the existing paint if its basically sound and well adhered to the hull. stripping it all off is a major task and not for the feint hearted.

a full set of fittings in whitemetal are available from model slipway, have a look on the useful links page for the web address.

for a major reference site for "how to's" and "tech help" on all things model boat building it will be well worth you visiting the model boat mayhem website, there is a collective of thousands of years of model boat building on there! a great place to pick up ideas! again the web address is over in the useful links section

good luck with the rebuild, I am sure everyone will help as much as they can

db

oh... your rudder looks a little too large 😊

For fittings checkout

http://www.modelslipway.com/

CRASH TENDER Fittings Set (87 metal parts, unpainted)
NOTE: no plans / kits / additional items are available for the Crash Tender.
The window frames on our models were made from 0.5mm Plasticard.



Description Qty per Set Description Qty per Set
Floodlights (non working) 2 Mast Lights (non-working) 1
Large cowl vents 6 Navigation lights (non-working) 2
Small cowl vents 2 Stern light (non-working) 1
Mushroom vents 4 Net rail blocks 16
Deck cleats 4 Handrail balls 12
Deck bollards 4 Bow bollard 1
Searchlight (3 parts) non-working 1 Chain pipe top 1
Roof horn 1 Towhook assembly (5 parts) 1
Anchor (2 parts) 1 Foam monitors assy (4 parts) 2
Jackstaff 1 Cabin/mast cleats 4
Davit assembly (4 parts) 1 Manifold assembly (3 parts) 1

Rob

Thanks for the info! I've just been to the shop to buy some fairy power spray. My wife may be quite dissapointed to find it's for my boat, not the oven! I'll give it a go when the garage isn't covered in snow and let you know how I get on.

Ive had 2 paint strippers recommended to me and used both with some success.
firstly, you can pop to your local shop and buy some "fairy power spray", its an oven cleaner, but perfectly safe on wood or plastic, will lift paint in minutes, and simply wash off with a hose pipe.

Secondly there is a "marine paint stripper", called "safe stripper", made by a company called Langley.
If you check the boat build blogs, go to my "DGzRS lifeboat blog and you can see pics of the strippers in action before you try, you can also get the web site Addy for the marine stuff if you want some too.

As for replacement fittings, there are plenty of model boat stores which have on-line shops, Cornwall model boat supplies, and westbourne models are 2 examples, let alone eBay, SHG have an on-line catalogue of loads of stuff available to order.

With reference to you splitting up the servos etc, be careful you don't put them too far away as they only come with short cables and the less connectors you have "near water" the better so to speak, plus id sooner keep all these items close to each other, as you then only need to ensure this section of the hull is fully water tight [ish] and not all of it 100%.

incidentally, talking of radio gear, there is a new kit on the market, 2.4 ghz set [which means you don't need any crystals or channel requisites] from a company called "planet" SHG are selling these sets [trans & receiver] for a mere A£30 !, set is also 5 channel too, a bargain if ever there was.
Servos are ten a penny on eBay and if prepared to wait for delivery from Hong Kong, less that a fiver each! maybe 4 for 12 quid [ish] in fact.