Sealing hull

Started by Vickers1979
16 replies 1 like 0 followers Last activity: 10 years ago
#17

Sealing hull

I am sure that you also have your own litany of failed attempts grins we learn much from them. Today with the internet we have a powerful source of data to hopefully not repeat other's errors.

There are times I feel as though my misspent youth was back in the dark ages or even the stone age. Research involved actually going to libraries and finding relevant books.

Some lessons had to be learned the hard way and I have the scars to prove it ( fingers IC engines and propellers are a BAD mix) 13 stitches in my left index finger. Still persistence pays off even if the project is less than perfect ( they all are ) I still get a thrill seeing a creation of mine perform no matter how badly.
"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
#16

Sealing hull

Glad to hear it was not a fibreglass resin supplier.
Hopefully this story will prevent others making the same mistake.
I use resin and cloth extensively on my hulls as experience has shown that wood and glue don't last forever and it is a long process to repair a leaking hull.
The website you provided gives some excellent details about the whole process and types of resin, and I would recommend to anyone seeking to understand the subject so I am posting the details again
https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/t-GlassReinforcedPlastics.aspx.
Hope you are enjoying the sunshine we have in sunny Cheshire
Dave
Live long and prosper

Dave
#15

Sealing hull

yes in the end laughs and I accept the error when I said "lay up" I should have said gel coat put it down to age and poverty!!!

The story is long and involves my ignorance suffice it to say I wandered into a place doing boat construction and bought some resin etc. when I said was a model boat I was intending to use it for they thought I needed gel coat and I knew less then than I do now.

if my story prevents someone else from making the same error then I suppose it was worthwhile.
"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
#14

Sealing hull

Gel Coat is not lay up resin and unless you have a mould is not used as a fibreglass resin. This resin forms the nice shiny finish to a moulded hull. I agree it only sets on the mould side.
Yes it remains tacky because it has the glass cloth/fibre laid onto it whilst tacky followed by the layup resin. This resin if mixed correctly with the hardener and used at the correct temperature cures initially to a green state where you can trim the excess cloth/fibre from the edge of the mould. The resin then cures to its final hardened state whilst exposed to the air.

Additives alter the curing process and adding Acetone or IPA both fall into this class.
When we covered the hulls of the Titanic and Olympic we used a black pigment in the final coats. This delayed the curing process by 24 hours in spite of the temperature being 80F.

Gel coat is not commonly supplied as most modellers are usually just wanting one hull and don't bother with a reusable mould. My own suppliers asked me what I was using the resin for when I first ordered.

Did you cover the gel coat with layup resin to salvage your project?

Life can be very testing at times
Live long and prosper

Dave
#13

Sealing hull

"Air inhibition

Air inhibits the curing process in some resins, with the result that the exposed resin surface tends to remain tacky. This effect is used deliberately in gel coats, but can be a problem with some resins additives which prevent air inhibition discolour the resin and therefore cannot be used for some applications, e.g. clear casting."

"Gel Coat

A thixotropic resin invariably used as the first coat (applied without glass reinforcement) on the mould surface. it forms the hard, smooth shiny surface of the finished article and is usually pigmented. it paints on easily but does not drain from vertical surfaces. When 2% wax solution is added it becomes a Flowcoat."


https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/t-GlassReinforcedPlastics.aspx

I found all this out the HARD way when I bought the wrong resin and ...................
"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
#12

Sealing hull

Hi Haverlock
The wax is used in the mould to allow removal of the hull once the resin has set. Air does not stop the resin from hardening, but if the temperature is too low the reaction between the resin and hardener will be prolonged and may never produce a hard laminate.
Dave
Live long and prosper

Dave
#11

Sealing hull

If your covering a hull make sure the resin will set!! Layup resin as a rule don't want to set unless its sealed from the air. That's why a wax has to be added.
"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
#10

Sealing hull

Hi all thanks guy will look in go all that you have wrote and see what the best way for, thank you all for the help Lee.
L s Vickery
#9

Sealing hull

Hi Lee
The P38 filler you are using is a Polyester based resin, but you can also get Epoxy based resin.
I have used both and for most modelling needs the Polyester is fine and cheaper.
You can use fine glass cloth or preferably fine cloth and you apply the resin very sparingly with a plastic spatula (credit card size).
Acetone will dissolve the resin (and many plastics) and is good for cleaning up your equipment. IPA is also a solvent and I use to clean my equipment. Both will affect the composition of the resin and may cause problems with setting.
If you buy laminating resin it is already at the correct consistency for the lay up mat or cloth and does not need thinning. Temperature is important and if it is too cold the resin will be difficult to use and may not harden. The hardening process is exothermic and it needs some ambient heat to start the process which can result in not inconsiderable heat as the resin hardens.
I usually wait for a mild day before attempting any laminating. The fumes are not nice so outside is the best place or possibly a garage with the door open.
If you can find a local fibreglass supplier you will find them much cheaper than any other supplier. The resin is heavy so postal charges can be high.
Good luck
Dave
Live long and prosper

Dave
Liked by Rowen
#8

Sealing hull

before you use any thinning agent have a read here

http://www.epoxycraft.com/thinning-epoxy-best-practice-reducing-viscosity-west-system-epoxy/

you might like to look at this

http://rclife.co.uk/Deluxe-Materials-Aeropoxy-Super-thin-epoxy-for-wing-skinning-laminating-molding
"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
#7

Sealing hull

Hi
I used acetone to thin the resin, mainly because I'd seen it recommended for cleaning the equipment after fibreglassing. isopropyl alcohol is a similar price but I'd have thought it doesn't evaporate quite as quickly. I've also heard of people using meths. I don't want to confuse this thread, but does it matter which is used and which is best?
Edward
#6

Sealing hull

Hi mate, sorry for that, IPA iso Propyle Alcohol, its a water less thinners, got mine from ebay, not that expensive, small or larger quantities,

Mark
Etherow Model Boat Club
#5

Sealing hull

Hi Jarvo thank you for your help, one thing what is ipa? And where would you get it from? Lee
L s Vickery
#4

Sealing hull

HI mate, try easycomposites.co.uk they stock epoxy resin and catalist, .7oz glass cloth, smooth on with a brush from the middle out, cover with plastic film, smooth as a babys bum, thin the epoxy with IPA and poar into the hull between the bulkheads, roll the hull to coat all the serfaces, brush any dry areas, all wood sealed and a hard as rock

Mark
Etherow Model Boat Club
#3

Sealing hull

Will have a look in to it. the boat not made from balsa it's made of ply, the p38 I've got is mixed just add the harder an off it goes, but thank you will look in to it.
L s Vickery
#2

Sealing hull

its an old technique but nappy liners ( from chemist) and good old polyester resin. Will bond to your p38 so no worries there. Leave out the filler powder. You get a clear coating of polyester.

I have used it on a balsa hull and was tough enough to survive several encounters ( this was back in the day that a clockwork escapement was the in thing). One press is left let go centre then press again for right .
"that's not a bug its just an undocumented creature."

Sir Terence David John "Terry" Pratchett, OBE (28 April 1948 - 12 March 2015)
#1

Sealing hull

Hi all in need of a bit of help I'm building a Solent class life boat the hull is all wood I'm using p38 filler what can I use to really tuffing up the hull on my smaller boats always used sand sealer on them but now not to sure any help would be great full.
L s Vickery

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