Sailing ship "full rigged ship", "Af Chapman", now "Dunboyne".

Started by AlessandroSPQR
33 replies 85 likes 0 followers Last activity: 19 hours ago
#34 5
@AlessandroSPQR
I have the original testing equipment. The original was simply a manual test. If I pulled on the starboard sheet, it moved to the starboard side. if I pulled on the port sheet, it moved to the port side. I should now add the winch to see if it can successfully be done remotely.
1) Little stick on the right represents the foremast
2) Tall stick on the left represents the main mast
3) Little stick towards the left represents the leech of the foresail

Give me a couple of days
Force nothing, waste nothing, leave nothing undone
Liked by AlessandroSPQR
#33 8
@RossM
Spectacular, brilliant, and complex.
To fully grasp it, I need to see how it works—but that’s just a limitation on my end, so don’t worry about it.
This is exactly the kind of original, fascinating work I’m passionate about and follow closely—the sort of thing I was discussing with Col.
Liked by hermank
#32 10
Alessandro,

I see where your confusion is and I will lead you through to understanding.

Firstly, I am using 5 winches. 3 winches are single drum. 2 are double drum.

The single drums are:

1) jumbo jib, lowest of the 3 jibs
2) foremast winch
3) mainmast winch

These operate in the conventional manner that you are familiar with, a single sheet to the boom. The JUMBO JIB on the Bluenose has a boom. Note that, with the winch motors all the same, the single drum design is much bigger than the double drum design. The single drum gathers up and releases much more line than the double drum, just as you would expect.

The double drums are the special use drum. The sails controlled by these 2 winches are high above the deck. The sails aloft must go AROUND another object to move from side to side, (unlike the single drum boom controlled sails lower to the deck). The JIBS winch must control 2 sails, JIB TOPSAIL & JIB AROUND the luff of the JUMBO JIB below them. The JIBS winch will carry 4 sheets
1) JIB TOPSAIL port sheet
2) JIB TOPSAIL starboard sheet
3) JIB port sheet
4) JIB starboard sheet
The good part is that the travel distance is short, so the drum can be small. Yes, in this case, one drum takes up a pair of starboard sheets while the opposite drum releases the pair of port sheets, and vice versa when the motor is reversed.

The last double drum is the one that you inspired. The STAYSAIL winch. This is the most complex of the winches. The STAYSAIL winch must GUIDE the luff of the STAYSAIL back from the FOREMAST, along the side of both FORESAILS, behind both FORESAILS and forward to the FOREMAST, on the other side from it's start point. I believe that in my build blog there is a video demostrating the movement of the STAYSAIL, being tested on the bench.
This is alot of information to absorb. Let me know which part is confusing and I will clarify further
Force nothing, waste nothing, leave nothing undone
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#31 11
@RossM
Hi Ross, sorry for the delay.

Even though I really ought to be focusing solely on the design of the planing hull—which has nothing to do with sails and rigging—I find myself thinking about how to improve the sail control system I used on my schooner.
I’m not entirely happy with my method; while it works well for adjusting to various points of sail, it doesn't help much during tacking or jibing maneuvers.
Since I plan to build another one sooner or later, I’m always looking for inspiration and ideas.
So far, I haven't found a system that’s quite as satisfactory as I’d like.

Yours is one of the most interesting, but—as I mentioned—I do have one lingering doubt.

So, let's get to the point:
If I recall correctly, you used winches with custom-made drums (they looked great) that would take up the sheet on one side while releasing it on the other.
In my opinion, this system is perfect for controlling square-rigged yards.
I say this because a yard is a spar that rotates horizontally around its center point (where it connects to the mast); consequently, the length of line pulled in on the left corresponds exactly to the length released on the right, and vice versa.
In short, the line circuit driven by the winch around the drums maintains a constant length—it’s a closed loop.
However, when handling a gaff sail—like those on a schooner—the line's travel distance cannot remain constant. When sailing close-hauled, the line needs to be shortened as much as possible, whereas on a broad reach or running downwind, it needs to be fully extended.
I fail to see how a closed-loop system like the one you’ve created can manage these varying lengths of sheet attached to the boom.
I believe that while it would work perfectly for controlling the yard of a square sail, it wouldn't work for the boom of a gaff sail.
The problem, as I see it, is that such a system can effectively swing the boom from side to side (locking it in the desired position) but cannot adjust the boom's angle—and thus the sail's setting—relative to the boat.
In short, with a closed-loop system, once the opening angle is set based on the line length within the loop, that angle remains fixed. Yet, an angle that works for one point of sail won't work for another.

I hope my explanation makes sense.
For now, I’ve tried to describe my thoughts using only text, but if necessary—and I suspect it might be—I’ll attach some drawings to better illustrate what I mean.
In the meantime, thank you for your patience.
Liked by hermank
#29 15
@RossM
Actually, I am very interested in the sail control system.
It is very complex, but you have no trouble handling multiple controls—even simultaneously—thanks to the skills you developed in your line of work. I remember you telling us that.
However, there is one thing I don't understand.
Liked by hermank
#28 20
@AlessandroSPQR

Just to pique your curiousity, a photo of the ballast bulb fin, under construction. Any time that you want this moved to build blog, let me know
Force nothing, waste nothing, leave nothing undone
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#27 20
@RossM
Thanks, Ross. I’ll go ahead and do that as soon as you’re back at work—though if you like, I can send a message over there in the meantime, without waiting for you to start up again.
Liked by hermank
#25 21
@RossM

Compliments on your prints, Ross.


I can't wait for you to start working on the Bluenose again, because I have a few questions for you.
Liked by hermank
#23 21
@jumpugly
It hangs behind the partially complete BLUENOSE, beside the SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL print. and the other end of the room from the RG65 & DF65 (do you think there is a theme here). My wife asks if she has to ask permission to come aboard
Force nothing, waste nothing, leave nothing undone
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#20 21
@RossM
I completely agree with you, Ross.
The Cutty Sark is also one of my favorites; after all, it was a contemporary of the Thermopylae and even beat it in the famous Tea Race.
My only regret is not having had the time to visit it when I went to London, but I’ll try again.
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#19 21
@jumpugly

Hi Jumpugly, you'll make us jealous, hahahaha.

You wrote "As an aside, I always thought the great artist John Steel "missed the boat" with my favorite sailing ship Thermopylae, as she is under full sail while docked."
Correct and astute observation.
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#16 23
As a follow-up...
These restored box art examples are of kits in a much smaller scale, but beautiful all the same. I was particularly fond of The Bounty as I lived in Hawaii for 3 years while my father was in Vietnam. And the locales affected me deeply and I've never lost my love of the islands.
I was always a bit shocked that they didn't do a larger 1:96 scale Stag Hound, considering Revell's early success with their clipper kits.
Also notice the second Bounty restoration; it is known as a "wrap." That is when all the box sides are preserved as well. In that particular case the Bounty kit was a tie-in with the 1962 movie "Mutiny on the Bounty" with Marlon Brando.
🧐
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#14 24
Alessandro...here is the boxart for my Revell Thermopylae and others. I scanned the box tops of each kit in 8 or 10 300dpi sections and shipped them off to the digital artists at the boxartden.com to be digitally stitched back together for preservation in their archives. I collect Revell's old 1:96 scale sailing ships and the folks at the boxartden are always happy to add ships to their plastic model box art database. It is a labor of love for them and the modeling community especially when artists like John Steel and Jack Leynnwood were hired by the model companies.

As an aside, I always thought the great artist John Steel "missed the boat" with my favorite sailing ship Thermopylae, as she is under full sail while docked.

😉
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#13 27
@RossM
Ah, okay Ross, you're referring to her past as a training ship for the Swedish Navy; I had misinterpreted the use of the future tense in that sentence.

The story of the three-masted British schooner Sir Winston Churchill is an interesting one.

There are many naval training ships currently sailing the seas and oceans—magnificent vessels.
Now that you mention it, we lost a masterpiece: the ship Cristoforo Colombo. She was the sister ship to the Amerigo Vespucci but was handed over (if I recall correctly) to the USSR as war reparations after World War II.
They eventually scrapped her.
I’ve always been convinced that if she had gone to the UK or France, she would have met a better fate. It’s a shame.
In any case, she wasn't sunk.
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#12 27
@AlessandroSPQR
VICE ADMIRAL FREDRIK HENRIK AF CHAPMAN
Swediish navy
Purchased in 1923 to be used as a training vessel
At one stage the vessel was run around. This reminds me of the 3 masted
British schooner , SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL, also a training vessel, also run aground by her crew.
A problem with training vessels??
Force nothing, waste nothing, leave nothing undone
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#9 29
@RossM
Hi Ross, thanks for the kind words.
It might seem like a given since we’re modelers, but not everyone loves sailing ships—admittedly, with all those sails and rigging, they are more complicated to build and, above all, to sail—so I’m glad you enjoyed the images.

You’ve piqued my curiosity: which navy are you referring to?
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#8 29
@chugalone100
Thanks, Julian; I'm glad you like them. As I mentioned, unfortunately, I wasn't able to take photos of the interior.
If you like sailing ships, I invite you to check out the photos I posted a while back of the Amerigo Vespucci. On that occasion, I was able to take pictures on board and capture plenty of details.

https://model-boats.com/forum/151297
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#7 29
@jumpugly
Thanks for the kind words, Jumpugly.
I absolutely love the Thermopylae. It is one of my all-time favorite ships, especially because of its exceptional hull lines. A true masterpiece.

It makes me very happy to see historic sailing vessels—whether brigs, schooners, or full-rigged ships—saved from the scrapyard and kept seaworthy, or at least preserved in dry dock or at their moorings. They are like endangered species.

You have some truly enviable and highly prized kits.
Liked by hermank
#4 36
I can see why the navy would want this vessel as a training ship. It's big.
Thank you Alessandro for posting these photos for us to enjoy!
Force nothing, waste nothing, leave nothing undone
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#2 36
Wonderful pix and info Alessandro!!!
Honestly, when I saw the white hull I thought of the "Pedro Nunes" formerly the renowned "Thermopylae." Revell kit boxart below.
Be that as it may, this ship is glorious to look at and it has just been entered into my "bucket list" of sites to see!
Thanks so much for sharing this with us.
😀👍
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#1 42

Sailing ship "full rigged ship", "Af Chapman", now "Dunboyne".

Good evening to all sailing ship lovers.
We return to the sails. Sailing ships these fantastic products of man.

I share with you some images of a sailing ship, specifically a "full-rigged ship". Classic three-masted sailing ship with all square sails and the spanker (or driver) on the mizzen abero.

Unfortunately, I didn't have the time and opportunity to take photos on board. There would have been invaluable details for us naval modelers, lots of real details to copy.

This is the "Dunboyne" later renamed "Af Chapman".
Fantastic.

Anyone can learn more with a quick internet search, but for the lazy ones, I'll include a brief description here.

+The ship was built in England and named Dunboyne after an Irish citizen. It was a sturdy merchant ship, designed to carry goods over very long distances.
He sailed everywhere from Europe to Australia to North America, rounding the great ocean capes before the Panama Canal was even built.
During the First World War it was purchased by a Swedish company. In 1923 she moved to the Swedish Navy which turned her into a training ship to train young sailors. On this occasion she was renamed af Chapman. This name is a tribute to Fredrik Henrik af Chapman, a very famous naval designer and Swedish admiral of the eighteenth century.
In 1947, the city of Stockholm rescued the ship from scrapping. Since 1949 she has been permanently moored near Skeppsholmen Islet, in the heart of Stockholm.
The af Chapman (formerly the Dunboyne) is a large 19th-century sailing ship with a hull made entirely of steel. Its dimensions made it perfectly suited to withstand the world's roughest seas, such as the trade routes around Cape Horn.
Dimensions and Measurements
Length Overall (LOA): 88.4 meters (this measurement includes the hull plus the bowsprit—the long spar projecting forward from the bow).
Hull length: 71.1 meters.
Beam (Maximum width): 11.4 meters.
Draft: 5.6 meters (the depth of the ship below the waterline). When fully loaded for commercial operations, this could reach nearly 7 meters.
Height of the mainmast: 41.6 meters (equivalent to a building of about 13–14 stories).
Characteristics and Tonnage
Gross Tonnage (GRT): Approximately 1,425 tons.
Hull material: Riveted steel.
Masts: 3 masts in total.
Sail rig: Full-rigged (all three masts carry square sails on horizontal yards).
Number of sails: As many as 26 different sails deployed to the wind while underway.
Original propulsion: Sail-only (it was never equipped with a marine engine for open-sea navigation).
When the vessel served as a training ship for the Swedish Navy, it accommodated up to approximately 250–300 people at a time—including officers, instructors, and young cadets—who slept in hammocks.
+


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Af_Chapman_(ship)
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