My last motorcycles were all trials bikes that I enjoyed running with my sons most Sundays at our local Back Cowm Quarry (the home of the world trials championship when they run the British round).

This is a superb facility for playing around on a trails bike, and the vast area was also used for 4x4 trials, Enduros and other off-road motor sports with plenty of space for every one to pay for a day at a time to use.

At first we had old, and then later new Montessa Cota two strokes but we also had the Honda Montessa four-strokes when they came out.

I already had a Sherco 175 to use when I was on my own as it was much lighter weight for an oldie to muscle around and recover when needed….and to be honest, it was by far the easier bike to rise!

We also had a pair of classic Honda 250 trials bikes that I loved, but all these bikes and associated kit had to go when we retired as our unit had to be cleared-out so it could be rented to a tenant to help our pensions.

It was probably the right time to quit as falling off hurts a lot more as you get older, and injuries seem to take much longer to mend……

Bob.

Like others who have given up using their motorbikes or are thinking of doing so I'm in the same position. But for now I still have a few - crazy thing is you think you are going to have more time to ride them when you retire, but often you don't, and touring is a thing of the past now.

I changed my touring bike 4 years ago, a Triumph Tiger 1050 with full luggage, for a more leisurely Triumph Scrambler 1200. I also have a 2003 Triumph Thunderbird Sport, a 2003 CCM 644 Dual Sport I used for green laning (though it's more like brown laning over here - that's the mud! 😀 Though there has been some moments!). A 1973 Triumph Tiger 750 and a 1962 Lambretta TV175, a 1963 version being my first road legal two-wheeler. I passed my test on it and bought a 1959 BSA 650 Super Rocket which you could do in those days.

The CCM is going to be sold due to lack of use but also I need the space in the garage.

Chris

Funny how this question moved onto motorcycles.

I have a 1969 Triumph Trident, bought as bits and rebuilt over a couple of years, also have a 1949 AJS 500cc single but this still more bits than bike.

Wow!!!
Hello everyone . .
We've strayed a bit here, but motorcycling is a second freedom that I enjoy alongside model making. The old grey GW1500 had 450,000 km on the clock, so I traded it in for a newer GW 1800. Well, the old 1988 Harley outlived the grey one . . . .
Every year in spring, I attend a basic course. Then I can decide whether to ride the following year or stop. .
At some point, it will be over. .
Now it's winter and it's time to get back to tinkering !

Your Michel-C.

Ps: Translated from German
Never mess with motorcyclists, we know places where no one will find you! 🤣🤣
Second :
Christmas is coming soon, so I'm not buying anything because my wife keeps me in check!

My last motorbike, gave up riding and sold it when I was diagnosed with cardiac problems. It was heavier on fuel than my motor car.

I'd post a photo of my motorcycle but it doesn't look too pretty with the front wheel folded up against the engine. 55 years ago someone (drinking) decided to pull out in front of me. Still limping from the injury. However, it could have been much worse. Memories... thanks for posting. Ride safe.

Lew

Thanks for the motorcycle pictures Gary - they are very much appreciated as your restorations are superb and are very good to look at.

My interest in your Royal Enfield Continental GT is because it reminds me so much of the 250 version that I couldn’t afford to buy when I was an apprentice.

I do like most vintage motorcycles, but I also have a “soft spot” for Tritons!

Similar reason. I had a pre-unit Triumph T120 Bonniville engines and gearbox with a Norton featherbed frame just as I was getting married - and “needs must” as they say, so it was sold before I could finish it.

Bob.

thanks Bob, I really appreciate that comment and find it quite strange that when I was at your place for some strange reason model boats was never mention, mind I was somewhat engaged loading that very heavy lathe on to its coming home transport. I am not quite sure what I have sent you, anyway it is an Ariel Huntmaster FH 650, completely altered in its appearance, and completely rebuilt. Regards, Gary.

It is nice to have a good Myford lathe to work with Gary, but that is only the tool that you have used to make the parts on.

The skills and workmanship are provide by yourself, something you have developed with your natural talent over the years.

I am truly impressed and humbled that you chose to make the parts on my old lathe, but you are the one that made them as well as you did - the lathe could not do it without you!

Nice work Gary 👍

Bob.

Very nice this engine Gary.

GaryLC:
I can also see that you’ve likely done some mechanical restoration on that bike—it looks brand new. Excellent work! I can definitely relate to that kind of restoration, since I rebuilt a 1973 VW Beetle myself.
Here’s the engine I restored in my backyard.
😎

GaryLC:
That is a very impressive-looking steam engine setup. I’ve always admired these systems, but I find them complicated since I have no real knowledge of steam engines. Nevertheless, I truly admire the modelers who can build them—and make them run.
Congratulations on an outstanding piece of work.
😎

Thanks Gary,

I still absolutely love that picture of your Royal Enfield Continental GT.

........and I still wish that I had an original 250 Continental GT from the 60's when all my mates had jobs and could afford to buy one on the "never never", but I was an apprentice so my pay did not allow me to join them!

My old Matchless was nice, but it didn't have the "boy racer" look of the GT that every teenager back in the day really wanted before passing "the test" and buying a Domiracer or building a Triton etc..........

Nice to hear from you Gary - stay safe 👍

Bob.

Hi Bob, and if the truth beknown I could not have done this without you, after all it was on your lathe I turned the necessary bit and pieces on. The only thing holding be back at the moment is the bloody cold weather and the fact my workshop is freezing. Plus a crying shame that the schools and colleges that used to teach fitting and turning no longer exist as they did in the GOOD old days. Regards, Gary. ( Mind I suppose there is YouTube but it is not quite the same as hands on.)

Nice workmanship Gary , and good to see a couple of alternative drive methods between the engine and the propeller shaft. 👍

Bob.

Having read all of the posted answers to this some what strange proposal it does beg the question why. Stick to the the tried and proven method and use some sort of a coupling. My personal proffered method is to use an uncoupled coupling as per the photos. Or in some cases where prop shaft and engine are on different levels a steel chain and sprockets. Regards, Gary.

Thanks all, this was not a “wind up” but a genuine question.

My original thought was wouldn’t it be great if the motors had a hole bored through their drive shaft so the propeller shaft could pass through, locking the motor to the prop shaft and supporting the motor.

Think the use of ammeter to run minimum current is a great idea. Will be using this for sure.

Hi Doug, I collect old electric motors mainly those intended for model use. I have 7 biscuit tins full but the odd part is I have to search for ages to find a motor for a new boat.

I like restoring older model boats and also like fitting a contemporary motor to them. I bought a Mary Ann fishing boat with a 540 motor fitted. I can't imagine how fast she went. I did a refit and put in a Monoperm motor.

I attended a Garage sale about 20+ years ago and looked around and not much took my eye.
Then someone I hardly knew called out my name and said we have been saving the electric motors for you

He brought out a box of motors, about half the size of a banana box, I asked how much for the lot? He said can I manage £40? yes I could! I sold a couple which paid for the buy. I still have a lot left which I use in my boats.

I sometimes feel guilty about the purchase but then forgive myself by using the motors as they were intended.

Roy

Thanks Austin👍
At least one like minded compatriot👍
Cheers, Doug😎

Hi Steve / Mirangi,
As you may have gathered from my previous to Roy (re straightening macaroni😋) I regard your enquiry and this thread as somewhat frivolous.

To your original 'query'
"Has anyone tried running a boat by using a solid connection between the motor and the shaft and using an anti torque rotation arrangement to stop the motor from turning."
Later response from you to various answers -
"Great answers and I understand where you are coming from but my original question was based on mounting the motor directly to the shaft, using the shaft to support the motor and using a spring loaded device to stop the motor from rotating. I.e the weight of the motor “hangs” from the shaft. Wear of the shaft bearing may be an issue hence the reason I asked if anyone has tried this.
Look forward to continuing this conversation."

Why oh why oh why would you want to even try that?
Where is the fundamental difference between "using an anti torque rotation arrangement to stop the motor from turning." and simply conventionally fixing the motor down in the hull?
What advantage should it bring? The disadvantages are obvious.
Your shaft bearing and the shaft itself will be worn down at a rate of knots and battery current will be wasted in the process.
The arrangement and construction of the 'anti torque rotation arrangement to stop the motor from turning.' would probably be much more complicated and tricky than simply doing the job right in the first place.
You've received many weird and wonderful suggestions for various couplings, here's my recipe for a setup that works every time.
Sorry folks, but for me any resort to even a single UJ or (God forbid) multiple UJ type couplings (dog-bones, extended dog-bones and the like) means the basic construction alignment was somehow screwed up and power loss increased, and thus duration on the wet stuff reduced.

1. Use a rigid coupling between motor shaft and prop shaft to align motor to the shaft.
(I knock up mine to suit the model (motor and shaft diameters) on my Proxxon mini lathe.
But there are also many such adaptors commercially available for non-lathe owners.
2. Set the motor to run at approx half speed, while monitoring the current drawn.
Ammeter inserted between ESC and motor (brushed) or between drive battery and ESC for brushless.
3. Twiddle the motor gently around until you reach the position where the current drawn is at minimum. This is then the position of perfect alignment and maximum power transfer to the propshaft. NOTE the current value for reference for step 5.
4. Shim the motor mount to this position. This is an iterative process which should be checked from time to time by checking the current drawn by the motor as above. 'Less is more!😉'
5. When all is correct, i.e. minimum current draw, apply a few blobs from a hot glue gun to hold the motor in place prior to permanent fixing with screws or bolts.
6. Fit motor - shaft coupling; preferably the 'bellows' type (correct English description learned from Lew's post👍) which provides strength as well as accepting very small misalignment and runs silently. See attached pic; as fitted to my brushless powered Sea Scout.

Bon chance mon ami🤞
Cheers, Doug😎
PS When I look at the original query again I start to wonder if this thread is not just another 'wind up'. Would not be the first time such has happened here.🙄

Excellent idea Roy👍
I'll be trying that to straighten out my macaroni😋
Just have to buy a few dozen more motors for the test/correction jig.
😁😂🤣😆

😎

One idea for a coupling is a short section of Tygon type hose (commonly like that used on small fueled engines, grass edgers, etc). This was supplied by Zippkits for Springers). It was held in place with a collar on each end. The collar fitted over the tubing and the setscrew tightened into the tube over the shafts.

The idea was good but it required the shafts to be the same diameter. For me, on the first two Springers I built both failed when the tubing twisted.

I use Dumas "Dogbones" on the majority of my boats.

Lew

I have found that often the piece of tubing is a bit curved. If it is I put it in hot water to soften it then carefully take it out and it is an easy thread onto the brass bosses.
Then spin the motor up to top speed for 10 seconds or so and it straightens it out.
Roy

Hi Bob,
Re 'I would suggest this is bad practice and not a great idea at all IMHO.'
Quite so, I heartily agree. Can't see why anyone would even think of doing that.
Cheers, Doug😎

I make mine a bit shorter than yours Roy - mine are a similar length to the Powerflex couplings so I can interchange them if there is ever a need to do so (unlikely I know!).

Bob.

Hi Zooma there may be an easier way using gas pipe tubing. The old 1/2 inch pipes fit nicely over the Huco brass parts. When I remember i use a 3 inch length of pipe to do what you do.
Roy

I would not expect the top prop shaft bearing (closest to the motor) to last for too long if it was to carry the weight of the motor, and also suffer the motor moving under varying load and speed conditions.

ELMIC (and others), used to make a shaft and motor combination that were directly coupled tighter, but they had a case to enclose and support the motor to reduce the strain on the end bearing and to stop the motor spinning around.

Without a support/case to keep the motor and shaft aligned, I would suggest this is bad practice and not a great idea at all IMHO.

Bob.

Great answers and I understand where you are coming from but my original question was based on mounting the motor directly to the shaft, using the shaft to support the motor and using a spring loaded device to stop the motor from rotating. I.e the weight of the motor “hangs” from the shaft. Wear of the shaft bearing may be an issue hence the reason I asked if anyone has tried this.

Look forward to continuing this conversation.
Steve

That is a massive choice of couplings you have on the link shown here Lew.

I prefer to use a semi-flexible joint (similar to Roy) either by using a Maxipower coupling or some LPG flexible gas tubing cut to length and fitted between a pair of HUCO type splined boss's.

If have time (and can be bothered) a pair of steel or alloy boss's can be turned on the lathe instead of using the HUCO types.

In either case, I drill and pin through the boss and the gas tubing at each end to make a permanent heavy duty coupling.

Bob.

Hi all, I glue my motors in place with bathroom sealant, onto a piece of shaped packing foam.

I use Huco brass bosses and a small length of thick walled tubing which is a tight fit over the splines of the brass. This is a constant velocity joint.

If I use the u/j plastic junction this is not a CVJ. As soon as there is any angle on a complete Huco connection the o/p rotates in a series of jerks and as the angle increases the jerks get get more pronounced.

A solid connection has to be so accurate that any deviation will wear the prop tube bearing to an oval shape.

My glue system will work for up to 50 Watts power. It is easy to remove but the sealant sticks quite hard to the motor.

Roy

...also there are couplings that allows small amounts of misalignment. Some are not much bigger than a regular coupling and do not require the space of a double u-joint, good for tight places.

The styles and sizes are too numerous to list but if you search "small electric motor coupling" you can see many of them.

Lew

Example:
https://share.google/Cu6lIpytRxumyXAtq

Hi Lew,

What ever type of coupling I use, I first make a solid bar of the same length as the coupling and bore one end to fit the motor shaft and the other end to fit the propeller shaft.

Once the motor and prop shaft are rigidly connected to each other (at the correct spacing) I make or adjust the engine mount so they are precisely aligned and make sure that it is fixed securely in place before removing the solid bar.

The alignment is so good there could be an argument for not having any sort of coupling, but I always fit one because it is better to be safe than sorry and a good coupling can help to suppress vibration - something that a solid joint is not so good at!

Bob.

This is a question that comes up now and then. I was given a RTR model that had that. A setup like that requires everything to be precise. Even if one replaces the motor it is very hard to get that perfect alignment. To pad or shock mount or shim the motor might help.

But back to replacing the motor, which is not uncommon, would a time consuming process.

Lew