thanks for the advice all taken on board

Ciao Stephen.

Mi dispiace del corto circuito. Sperò che tu non abbia subito grossi danni.
Sono contento invece che non demordi.

Visto che devi ricostruire il circuito a sei volt, per i led ti consiglio un'alimentazione autonoma.
Se vuoi rimanere su un'alimentazione di 6 volt, prendila da un pacco batterie a se stante.
Oppure, se non puoi inserire un altro pacco batterie, prendi la tensione prima di passare dai BEC (riduttori di tensione) che alimentano radar e ventola.
Intendo, quindi, che dovrai fare un parallelo a monte del riduttore di tensione (dove hai sei volt) e non a valle.

Non ti consiglio delle linguette di conduttore che vanno in contatto appena chiudi il coperchio.
Puoi usare un semplice connettore, basta che i cavi siano abbastatnza lunghi da permetterti di sollevare il coperchio.

Per evitare il riduttore di tensione, puoi alimentare i tre led come ti ho mostrato nel disegno allegato.
Con sei volt di tensione, se metti una resistenza di 330 volt, puoi far circolare su ogni ramo circa 18 mA. Avrai una corrente totale di circa 54 mA, pertanto non avrai bisogno di grossi cavi.


Sono solo consigli logicamente, procedi come preferisci tu.


Hi Stephen.

I'm sorry about the short circuit. I hope you didn't suffer any major damage.
I'm glad you don't give up though.

Since you have to rebuild the six volt circuit, I recommend an independent power supply for the LEDs.
If you want to stay on a 6 volt supply, get it from a separate battery pack.
Or, if you can't fit another battery pack, get the voltage before switching to the BECs (voltage reducers) that power the radar and fan.
I mean, therefore, that you will have to make a parallel upstream of the voltage reducer (where you have six volts) and not downstream.

I don't recommend conductor tabs that come into contact as soon as you close the lid.
You can use a simple connector, as long as the cables are long enough to allow you to lift the lid.

To avoid the voltage reducer, you can power the three LEDs as I showed you in the attached drawing.
With six volts of voltage, if you put a resistor of 330 volts, you can circulate about 18 mA on each branch. You will have a total current of about 54 mA, so you won't need large cables.


These are just tips of course, proceed as you prefer.

Well checked it all out all went well all came on then one massive short from the bec by the connection block and as we say in Cornwall its all Fried, so ill have to start again best way I suppose this time new wiring pleased that you all took an interest takes more this to offend me, with out knowledge come errors Its all been a learning curve with this hobby, But without this website I would have given, up my local club was not much help ether no wonder people give up, my other interest comes from the 16mm railway side and they was only to keen to help the novice as did my car clan but comes to boats its😮O would not have done that etc

Ciao Colin, buona sera, sono d'accordo con te.

Sono contento che sia riuscito a farmi capire, ho sudato molto per questo ahahahahah.

Io penso che tu e Doug, se aveste avuto in mano il modello di Stephen lo avreste aiutato, risolvendo il problema in poco tempo.

Però ci piace parlare di questi argomenti, è sempre molto utile oltrechè piacevole.

Sono curioso di come risolverà il problema ma non vorrei essere troppo pedante.
Non si sa mai con certezza quali sono le conoscenze di un altro membro, magari dandogli un consiglio banale si rischia di offenderlo.
Di contro, se si da per scontato qualcosa, si rischia di non essere di alcun aiuto a chi non sa fare quella cosa.

Hi Colin, good evening, I agree with you.

I'm glad he managed to make me understand, I sweated a lot for this hahahahaha.

I think that you and Doug, if you had Stephen's model in your hands, would have helped him, solving the problem in a short time.

But we like to talk about these topics, it's always very useful as well as pleasant.

I'm curious how it will solve the problem but I don't want to be too pedantic.
I never know for sure what another member's knowledge is, perhaps by giving him trivial advice you risk offending him.
On the other hand, if you take something for granted, you risk not being of any help to those who don't know how to do that thing.

Alessandro good evening, you have given a very good answer to a question with very limited information available.
I understood the whole thing and I can't think of anything else that would help.
Without a detailed drawing or photos of the full system as it was, so it looks like we are at the end until Stephen checks it out.
Cheers Colin.

Buongiorno a tutti.
Salute Stephen.

In questa equazione ci sono ancora molte incognite.

Rileggendo il post non ho capito che intende Stephen con questa frase: "radar and motor work and lights do not can up the power to come off the receiver", perchè "to come off the receiver"?


Perciò provo a fare delle ipotesi sulla base di quanto vedo nelle foto e di quanto è scritto per cercare di aiutare Stephen.


Io credo che il set di cavetti ( nero-rosso-bianco/rosso), indicati con la freccia gialla, connessi al canale 3, siano quelli che vanno all'ESC.
Siccome, nella ricevente, lo slot di connettori nominato "battery" è vuoto, devo dedurre che la ricevente sia alimentata dal BEC (Bttery Eliminator Circuit, che abbassa la tensione a 6 volt) integrato nell'ESC.
Penso che il set di cavetti (nero-rosso-marrone), indicati con la freccia rossa, connessi la canale 1, siano quelli che vanno al servomeccanismo del timone.
Quindi, la batteria da 7,2 volt è collegata all'ESC (o speed controller). L'ESC è connesso al canale della ricevente; gli fornisce tensione (cavo rosso positivo) e riceve i comandi di regolazione della velocità (cavo bianco/rosso).
Il servomeccanismo del timone, connesso al canale 1, si alimenta dal cavetto rosso (positivo), in parallelo con tutti i positivi della ricevente. Il Il servomeccanismo del timone riceve i comandi dal cavetto marrone.
Questa configurazione è plausibile perchè, effettivamente, solo motore e timone devo essere radiocomandati obligatoriamente, mentre luci, radar e ventola, si possono solo accendere o spegnere manualmente alla partenza.
Abbiamo capito che questa accensione avviene con la chiusura del coperchio tramite linguette di conduttore.
Se tutta questa ipotesi corrisponde alla realtà, allora questo possiamo ignorare questo circuito, che è indipendente dall'altro e non ci interessa per risolvere il guasto in questione, cioè la mancata accensione dei led.

L'altro circuito ha molte incognite.
Da quanto ho capito è alimentato da quattro batterie alcaline da 1,5 volt, perciò se sono in serie, questo circuito è alimentato con tensione di 6 volt.
A questi led (se sono collegati in parallelo fra loro) non può essere fornita una tensione diretta di 6 volt, e questo spiegherebbe la presenza di riduttori di tensione.
Se i tre led sono invece collegati in serie, questa tensione va bene perchè si ripartisce su loro tre. Però non mi spiego più la presenza di due riduttori di tensione.
Puoi dirci se il led sono collegati fra loro in serie o in parallelo?

Al circuito delle batterie AA, oltre ai led, sono connessi il radar e la ventola di raffreddamento.
Potresti provare a vedere se i led si accendono, togliendo ventola e radar.

"the purple arrow is a voltage reducer for the radar ". Bisogna dedurre che il motore del radar si alimenta ad una tensione più bassa di sei volt. Possiamo escludere, per il momento, questa parte dai test, visto che funziona.

Se anche la ventola ha il suo riduttore di tensione e i led sono in serie allora le batterie AA da sei volt potrebbero essere connesse direttamente alle luci, senza riduttori resistenze o altro in mezzo. In tal caso il problema è il cablaggio e le connessioni visto che i led sono funzionanti. In effetti dalle immagini sembravano integri.

Una prova può essere di staccare temporaneamente ventola e radar, come ho detto prima.
Provare a vedere se ai led giunge tensione e quanti volt.
Un utile prova è usare la funzione "cicalino" del tester multimetro. Con questa funzione controlli facilmente tutti cavi e le connessioni, se il circuito è aperto in qualche punto te ne accorgi subito. Va usato con circuito disalimentato e isolando man mano i tratti interessati.
Ti ripeto, senon è rotto un componente, ci deve essere un'interruzione nascosta da qualche parte.


Good morning everyone.
Cheers Stephen.

There are still many unknowns in this equation.

Rereading the post I didn't understand what Stephen meant with this sentence: "radar and motor work and lights do not can up the power to come off the receiver", why "to come off the receiver"?


So I try to make some guesses based on what I see in the photos and what is written to try to help Stephen.


I believe that the set of cables (black-red-white/red), indicated with the yellow arrow, connected to channel 3, are the ones that go to the ESC.
Since, in the receiver, the connector slot named "battery" is empty, I must deduce that the receiver is powered by the BEC (Battery Eliminator Circuit, which lowers the voltage to 6 volts) integrated into the ESC.
I think that the set of cables (black-red-brown), indicated with the red arrow, connected to channel 1, are the ones that go to the rudder servomechanism.
Then, the 7.2 volt battery is connected to the ESC (or speed controller). The ESC is connected to the receiver channel; supplies it with voltage (positive red cable) and receives speed regulation commands (white/red cable).
The rudder servomechanism, connected to channel 1, is powered by the red cable (positive), in parallel with all the positives of the receiver. The rudder servomechanism receives commands from the brown cable.
This configuration is plausible because, effectively, only the engine and rudder must be radio controlled, while the lights, radar and fan can only be turned on or off manually at departure.
We understood that this ignition occurs by closing the lid via conductor tabs.
If all this hypothesis corresponds to reality, then we can ignore this circuit, which is independent of the other and does not interest us in solving the fault in question, i.e. the failure of the LEDs to turn on.

The other circuit has many unknowns.
From what I understand it is powered by four 1.5 volt alkaline batteries, so if they are in series, this circuit is powered by 6 volts.
These LEDs (if they are connected in parallel to each other) cannot be supplied with a direct voltage of 6 volts, and this would explain the presence of voltage reducers.
If the three LEDs are connected in series, this voltage is fine because it is distributed across the three of them. But I can no longer explain the presence of two voltage reducers.

Can you tell us if the LEDs are connected together in series or in parallel?

In addition to the LEDs, the radar and the cooling fan are connected to the AA battery circuit.
You could try to see if the LEDs light up by removing the fan and radar.

"the purple arrow is a voltage reducer for the radar". It must be deduced that the radar motor is powered by a voltage lower than six volts. We can exclude this part from the tests for now, since it works.

If the fan also has its own voltage reducer and the LEDs are in series then the six volt AA batteries could be connected directly to the lights, without reducers, resistors or anything else in between. In this case the problem is the wiring and connections since the LEDs are working. In fact, from the images they seemed intact.

One test might be to temporarily disconnect the fan and radar, as I said before.
Try to see if voltage reaches the LEDs and how many volts.
A useful test is to use the "buzzer" function of the multimeter tester. With this function you can easily check all cables and connections, if the circuit is open in some point you will notice it immediately. It must be used with the circuit de-energized and the affected sections gradually isolated.
I repeat, if a component is not broken, there must be a hidden break somewhere.

the purple arrow is a voltage reducer for the radar

in answer to your question these arrows go to the esc and the other to the rudder then under green tape is a repair as the power supply to the main switch melted hence all the damage the power to the switch was from the motor side of the esc and too the left contact ive tested the bec all seems fine and the lights do work if i connect direct very bright!

Ho letto Doug (RNinMunich) solo ora, dopo aver preparato questo testo.
Se ho tradotto bene tutto quello che ha scritto, sono d'accordo con le sue affermazioni e con le sue domande.

Buongiorno a tutti.

Mi vorrete scusare, soprattutto chiedo scusa a Colin e Stephen, ma io non riesco a ricostruire ancora bene il circuito. Sicuramente è un mio limite perciò abbiate pazienza. Infatti non riesco a tradurre bene tutte le vostre frasi.
Le foto sono ottime, chiarissime, ma non riesco a legarle completamente fra loro. Forse qualche didascalia sarebbe utile , e poi manca qualche elemento, ad esempio viene citato l'ESC ma non credo di vederlo.

Però voglio comunque provare ad andare avanti nell'indagine con quello che abbiamo.


Il led:
Quello che vedo nella foto (E' indicato con la freccia blu) a me sembra un led comune, di quelli che si usano nei circuiti elettronici, quindi non un led ad alta luminosità.
In questo caso la corrente massima è di 15 - 20 mA. La caduta di tensione del led è di 2 o 3 volt.
Per comandarlo c'è bisogno di una resistenza che varia a seconda della tensione di alimentazione. Ad esempio circa 450 ohm se ci sono 9 volt. Ogni resistore è in serie al suo led, ma ogni ramo (resistore +led) può essere messo in parallelo con uno o più rami (facendo aumenatre l'assorbimento totale di corrente).
Quindi io dissalderei il led e lo proverei. Magari per non bruciarlo aumenta la corrente man mano.
Sappiamo che il LED si brucia solo se attraversato da troppa corrente, l'inversione di polarità non gli fa nulla (semplicemente non si accende) essendo un diodo.
Se non hai resistori per fare queste prove alimentalo direttamente a due volt o 3 volt al massimo senza resitenza (anche se non si dovrebbe farlo).
Ti dico questo nel caso non abbia led uguali di ricambio, ma se li possiedi fai prima a sostituirli, se funzionano allora era il led.
Però, a vederlo, non mi sembra guasto.
Una volta dissaldato, vedi che tensione arriva ai capi di questo led.
Dopo questa prova continuiamo le verifiche man mano.

La ricevente:
Vorrei capire alcune cose:
Sono impegnati solo due canali. Ok. Il cavo nero è il negativo e va bene.
I cavi centrali sono i positivi. Vorrei sapere quale dei due fornire alimentazione e chi invece la riceve.
In altre parole, il cavo positivo indicato con la freccia nera dove è collegato?
Il cavo positivo indicato con la freccia gialla dove è collegato.
I cavi dei comandi (ad esempio dei comandi PWM) dove sono collegati e che cosa comandano?


Altri componenti:
Vorrei sapere che cos'è il circuito indicato con la freccia verde. Forse è un BEC (battery elimnator circuit) che in fondo è un riduttore di tensione. In tal caso sarebbe opportuno verificare la tensione di ingresso e quella di uscita.
Dove è collegato? Bisogna sapere dove sono connessi sia i due cavi di ingresso sia i due cavi di uscita.
Che cos'è il circuito indicato con la freccia viola.

Logicamente bisogna avere almeno un tester multimetro (voltmetro, amperometro, ecc. ecc.) per effettuare un minino di prove.


I read Doug (RNinMunich) only now, after preparing this text.
If I have translated everything he wrote well, I agree with his statements and his questions.

Good morning everyone.

You'll excuse me, above all I apologize to Colin and Stephen, but I still can't reconstruct the circuit well. It's definitely my limit so be patient. In fact I can't translate all your sentences well.
The photos are excellent, very clear, but I can't completely link them together. Maybe some captions would be useful, and then some elements are missing, for example the ESC is mentioned but I don't think I see it.

But I still want to try to move forward with the investigation with what we have.


The LED:
What I see in the photo (It is indicated with the blue arrow) seems to me to be a common LED, the kind used in electronic circuits, therefore not a high brightness LED.
In this case the maximum current is 15 - 20 mA. The voltage drop of the LED is 2 or 3 volts.
To control it you need a resistance that varies depending on the supply voltage. For example about 450 ohms if there are 9 volts. Each resistor is in series with its LED, but each branch (resistor + LED) can be placed in parallel with one or more branches (increasing the total current absorption).
So I would desolder the LED and test it. Maybe to avoid burning it, increase the current little by little.
We know that the LED burns out only if too much current passes through it, the polarity inversion does nothing to it (it simply does not turn on) since it is a diode.
If you don't have resistors to do these tests, power it directly at two volts or 3 volts maximum without resistor (even if you shouldn't do this).
I'm telling you this in case you don't have identical spare LEDs, but if you have them, replace them first, if they work then it was the LED.
But looking at it, it doesn't look bad to me.
Once desoldered, see what voltage reaches the ends of this LED.
After this test we continue the checks little by little.

The receiver:
I would like to understand a few things:
Only two channels are busy. Okay. The black wire is the negative and that's fine.
The central cables are the positive ones. I would like to know which of the two provides power and which receives it.
In other words, where is the positive cable indicated with the black arrow connected?
The positive cable indicated with the yellow arrow where it is connected.
Where are the control cables (for example PWM controls) connected and what do they control?


Other components:
I would like to know what the circuit indicated with the green arrow is. Maybe it's a BEC (battery elimination circuit) which is basically a voltage reducer. In this case it would be advisable to check the input and output voltage.
Where is it connected? You need to know where both the two input cables and the two output cables are connected.
What is the circuit indicated with the purple arrow.

Logically you need to have at least a multimeter tester (voltmeter, ammeter, etc. etc.) to carry out a minimum of tests.

Very diplomatic Colin👍
Frankly, looking at the first set of pics, my first thought was; potential soldering faults - dry joints --> open circuits?!
Unfortunately we still do not have the info we need to properly solve this problem (and no one has asked for it yet!)
1. How many LED lights?
2. How configured? One or more circuits? Series or parallel connection.
The latter needed to calculate what voltage is needed to drive each circuit and what current will be drawn.
A simple wiring diagram sketch would help us enormously.
3. What is the current drawn to drive the radar motor and the ESC fan?
4. What are the two little PCBs with the marking '100' visible on them?
I suspect that they may be voltage reducers.
If so specs please; i.e. output voltage. If not what?
I also agree with you Colin the 6V from 4xAA cells may not be enough to drive the fan and radar motor + lights.
Good quality AA cells (IEC standard) have a nominal capacity of around 2500mAh (2.5Ah).
A series chain of LEDs will only need about 30mA. The voltage required to drive them would be around 2.5xthe number of LEDs in the chain.
Contrarily LEDs wired in parallel will draw about 30mA x the number of LEDs in the circuit.
Voltage required would be equal to the minimum 'strike' voltage required by any LED in the circuit. Whichever, the current drawn by a few LEDs will be negligible compared with the current drawn by the two motors; radar and fan.
So without the above mentioned info/sketch we're working in the dark🙈
If the failure was sudden and catastrophic, i.e. all functions connected to the AA cells, my bet would be on a failure in the wiring; dry solder joint or loose connection in one of the 'chocolate blocks'. If it only occurs after running for a while then it may be a battery capacity problem as you suggest Colin.

Doug😎

Hi Luckyduck,
As far as I know the Aussies use the expression 'going pear shaped' not going south.
😎

I have done the wiring tidy up added a toggle switch to the feed wires and tried it out with 4.2v and radar and motor work and lights do not can up the power to come off the receiver

Stephen, I think you mean 5000mili amp hour which is equal to 5 amp hour.
Picture 2 could be the problem, I think you will need to tidy up those loose wire ends, as if one touches the opposite pole it could short out and catch fire.
I'm sure that's not your usual standard of wiring, so that could possibly be the answer.
Hope I've not been too harsh in my evaluation of your skill, we are all here to help if we can.
Cheers Colin.

Here is some more photos of the installation it has big leds and the first photo shows under the top section 2nd is the contacts there are a red and green wire that melted the two loose wires was connected to the switch and the red and back was connected to the esc
Or the tittle should be when it goes well south for our northern hemisphere members

its a 5,000 amp hour one

How do the Aussies deal with going south then, must be bitterly cold, even compared with Canada. The other one is that it has all gone **** up!!!

Your idiom "goes west" amuses me. Here in North America we use the expression "when things are going South..." I just don't know "how far south" our expression refers to !!

Stephen what amp hour is your 7.2 battery pack. I find running extras fom a small battery reduces your runtime, so you would probably need to carry spare battery.
My own preference is for separate batteries for accessories. Thus keeping your running battery for longer runs. Any model under 30 inches is the only ones I keep to single batteries purely as room is tight.
Cheers Colin.

yes there is is could i power it up from the esc or is that not enough

Well Stephen I think that you need a higher amperage give a constant supply.
Is there room for a small sla or lifepo battery.
Or another set of AA's just for the lights.
Cheers Colin.

yes you have the issue the main supply is 7.2v

So my understanding is that you have a 6volt supply that's wiring makes contact via the brass plates as you fit the top on your model. And this powers the radar, cooling fan and lights. Seems a lot for 4 x AA batteries, as the power reduces the LED lights will shut down suddenly when it gets to their reqired voltage. Whereas the fan and radar will run till the battery is dead.
Cheers Colin.

the power to to the radar and lights all comes from the 4xaa batterys its beeen suggested that it should come from the esc via switch

I cannot quite make out how these are switched but as I see that you are using two batteries, are the negative sides of both batteries common? Just a thought. Peter.

Good morning Stephen, I don't understand your last comment about where they get power from?
Cheers Colin.

Hi Stephen, how can you be certain that the contacts are making a good circuit?
Which battery powers the lights?
Is everything else working as it should?
Any chance that you can draw a schematic of your electric circuits for us to evaluate a possible solution to your problem.
Cheers Colin.

the main battery powers the esc and motor and the other the rudder its fan and radar is from a separate battery this makes contact once the top is in place I have tested the lights separately with a higher voltage and seem to have them working what i don't understand is where they get the power from

the contacts are not spring loaded they are led and wired in parallel battery is fine one suggestion is to fit a switch as the power goes from a separate battery for the esc fan and radar motor

Saluti Stefano.

Vorrei aiutarti perchè l'argomento è interessante e mi piace, considera però che non sono un esperto.
Mi piacerebbe che qualcuno ti desse la soluzione, così tu risolvi il problema e noi impariamo qualcosa in più.

Le domande di Colin sono giuste.
Anche io vorrei più informazioni. Se puoi metti più foto con l'indicazione dei componenti.
Non vedo i led e o lampadine nelle immagini, puoi inserirle?
Dalle immagini io riconosco solo la ricevente con solo due canali occupati. Gli altri due circuiti non so che cosa siano (B.E.C., attuatori o altro), puoi dirmelo?
Non credo che la batteria da 7, 2 volt sia direttamente collegata alla ricevente (di solito il range di tensione è da 6 a 4,8 volt ma forse mi sbaglio nel tuo caso specifico). Allora forse ci sarà un BEC fra batteria e ricevente.

Scusami ti ho fatto più domande che dato risposte, ahahahahah.

Intanto, in attesa di ulteriori informazioni, ti posso dire come procederei io:
Preferisco capire prima come funziona tutto il circuito elettrico, come sono disposti tutti i componenti e i contatti.
Poi inizierei dai led (Li controllerei singolarmente se possibile) fino ad arrivare alle batteria.
Puoi staccarli dal circuito e controllarli singolarmente? Sei capace di farlo? Oppure non è possibile?

Se i led funzionano il problema non è quello. Allora io risalirei man mano a monte del circuito. Arriva tensione ai led? I led sono comandati da singole resistenze o da un circuito regolatore di corrente?
O un componente elettrico è in avaria o il circuito elettrico è aperto in qualche punto.

Logicamente dovremmo avere le caratteristiche dei led (tensione nominale, potenza o amperaggio) e, come dice giustamente Colin, il tipo di collegamento.


Greetings Stephen.

I would like to help you because the topic is interesting and I like it, but please consider that I am not an expert.
I'd like someone to give you the solution, so you solve the problem and we learn something more.

Colin's questions are right.
I would also like more information. If you can, post more photos indicating the components.
I don't see the LEDs or light bulbs in the images, can you insert them?
From the images I only recognize the receiver with only two channels occupied. I don't know what the other two circuits are (B.E.C., actuators or other), can you tell me?
I don't think the 7.2 volt battery is directly connected to the receiver (usually the voltage range is 6 to 4.8 volts but maybe I'm wrong in your specific case). Then maybe there will be a BEC between battery and receiver.

Sorry, I asked you more questions than answers, ahahahahah.

In the meantime, while waiting for further information, I can tell you how I would proceed:
I prefer to first understand how the entire electrical circuit works, how all the components and contacts are arranged.
Then I would start from the LEDs (I would check them individually if possible) until I get to the batteries.
Can you detach them from the circuit and check them individually? Are you capable of doing it? Or is it not possible?

If the LEDs work, that's not the problem. Then I would gradually go up the circuit. Is there voltage coming to the LEDs? Are the LEDs controlled by individual resistors or by a current regulator circuit?
Either an electrical component is faulty or the electrical circuit is open somewhere.

Logically we should have the characteristics of the LEDs (nominal voltage, power or amperage) and, as Colin rightly says, the type of connection.

Stephen I take it that all was fine then suddenly stopped?
Are they relying on the contact plates in the pictures?
Is there anything else that could affect the lights, is everything else OK?
Are the contacts spring loaded?
Any other information you have could help, Are the lights LEDs or bulbs?
Wired in parallel or series?
Battery OK.
Cheers Colin.