Nerys,
Many thanks for your PM 👍😀
I have responded 😉
All the best, Doug 😎

Griss,
Don't worry about it now this topic is closed.

Anyway back to this intended thread.

The good news is in seven days time more restrictions are being lifted in England.
So as we slowly get back to normality i would like to remind you that your Health and Wellbeing Team are still going to be here for anyone that need our help.

I would also like to say if all goes well and we do return to normal i will still be available for anyone that just wants a chat.

Which one Martin?

Could not have put it better Geof. Now lets make it end of,

Geoff, that's succinctly put and I hope it will stick with us.
I love your input in all aspects, please keep it coming.
Stay safe shipmate, cheers Colin.

Geoff.
Thank you for your constructive comments.
Well received.
I also congratulate you on all your projects and input.
Regards Bill 👍👍

I joined this site almost 6 months ago to the day, because I found it interesting, inspiring and a good source of learning.
To this end I have contributed build blogs, my harbour, and made what to my mind, were sensible comments and enquiries, but when I go the site today and find I have 26 notifications all about covid and vaccinations and what is right or wrong with any of it, under the heading of mental health and well being I wonder where we have got to. Yes it is good to support each other when we are suffering poor mental or physical health, but this is what it should be support, not argumentative opinions. Covid had brought most families in this nation, distress, grief and heart ache but whoever is right or wrong in all this, our site not the platform for this sort of comment.
With best wishes and regards to all

Geoff.

Wonder the same thing.
Rick

Gents.
I am unsure how the posts regarding Johnson,Tzar Putin,Turkish blood etc fall into this category if indeed any category.
Can we concentrate on reality so that we do not loose control of the main aim of this site.
I have the best sense of humour in the world,but am struggling with some of this.

Regards Bill (Site Moderator)

You mean you cant believe A.B. Johnson & Tzar Putin not hitting off unbelievable .

His real name is Alexander Johnson and he lies like a cheap Watch!

Well said can we get back to our boats!

Dont fotget the Turkish blood in Jonhson

Ladies and Gents.
I did put up a post 8hours ago suggesting that the Covid debate has run its course.
It is rumbling on and getting personal I now feel.
I agree with Martin re deleting posts which would be a shame.
Time to put it to bed with respect.
Regards Bill.(Site Moderator)

Guys,
I will start deleting posts if this continues.
So if you wish to continue then Please use the PM (Private Message system.)

Martin555 (Moderator)

Take your own advice.👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎.
Rick

Totally agree Martin - but I don't believe that my opinion is extreme

Pity free speech is frowned upon - shame that they did away with Hyde Park Corner - if you took offense at what was being said you could always walk away. Always found it entertaining to listen to left or right wing loonies..........

Hi Guys,
I think we need to leave this subject now and use this thread as it was intended.
Thank you.

Martin555.

Nerys Please

Hi Griss,
What is this comment reference to ?

Martin555.

That attitude will spread COVID nicely Thank you!

Hi Guys,

We all have opinions and thoughts about this Covid problem but as mentioned my idea of this thread is that anybody that is feeling low or is struggling with the effects of these lockdowns or just wants a chat, then we are offering contact points that are strictly conferential and the Health and Wellbeing team are willing to talk and help in any way we can.

You don't have to put up with feeling alone or isolated.
We can be contacted by Private Message and can arrange for other forms of communication such as Skype etc.

As the lockdown restrictions slowly get eased there will still be members that are unable to get out and about and therefor will still feel as they are on there own.

I have found that talking to others is a great help and makes you feel much better and look forward to the next chat.
I am a member that regularly have Skype chats and we talk about all sorts of things besides model making.
And look forward to them tremendously .

So as i have said get in touch with a Health an Wellbeing team member and have a chat.

You are not alone.

Martin555.

Wow, let’s calm it all down guys. I think as a whole we can all agree we want normality back and we all hate lockdowns, masks, restrictions and being told we can’t visit loved ones or even sail our boats at times.

However COVID came about, it’s here now and will be around forever no doubt. Normality can’t come soon enough for all of us.

Whatever the route out of this mess, let’s try to keep this thread neutral and support those who are having a hard time or feeling isolated.

Stephen

Ladies and Gentlemen.
May I interject and be so bold as to say that whilst I am the first to agree with free speech and matters of opinion that the Covid debate has gone far enough in terms of its public debate here.
This Mental Wellness thread was originally posted to ensure that if anyone wanted a private chat with one of the volunteers they could contact us for support in these difficult times.
It seems to have detracted from that into a war of words ☹️☹️.
This is primarily a Model Boat building site not the Houses of Parliament.
Perhaps time to draw a line under this one or continue by PM if so desired.
If I am talking out of turn and appear dictatorial on this one I am prepared to resign my commission.🤣🤣🤣.
Regards Bill.

Hi Nerys,
I too would like to get back to boat building topics!
And would love to see some pics of your lovely green barge 😉
(This thread has sadly considerably deviated from Martin's original intentions!)
"but red's initial post was not the first I had seen of his theory and it is accepted by an increasing number of people."
That doesn't add to it's credibility I'm afraid Nerys.
I really cannot believe that any government or global conspiracy of national administrations (or any other organisations or conglomeration thereof) could orchestrate such a global disaster for their own ends, or even for the admirable purpose of reducing C02 emissions.
"My belief is that the government are in some way using this as an experiment in the mass control/nudging of the populace."
Oh my! You can't be serious Nerys! 1984 was 37 years ago!
OK Boris is a Slavic / Russian sounding name, but Johnson sure ain't!
I don't like him, coz of the Brexit agro and expense he's caused me, but Boris Stalin he ain't.
"For example, banning all but essential travel could be a way of helping with CO2 reduction."
Sure that helped, as did the local restrictions on personal vehicle travel.
Measurements published in Germany last week reported an almost 50% reduction in C02 emissions compared with 2020, due mostly to reduction of personal car journeys.
A side effect for sure, but a good one!😀
But no way do I, can I, believe that that was planned.
When have you last seen / experienced that all governments of the world (never mind the EU🙄) were agreed on anything? Let alone s(t)imulating' a global pandemic for their own ends!!
And 'Whose ends''
That exceeds even the limits of my over active imagination.
Nerys; Folks have been and are dying from the Covid-19 virus.
Can you really believe that this disaster is being used for political ends?
The politicians are just as vulnerable, and liable to make mistakes, as you and I are!
"However, I'm a simple soul really, not a bit scientific and I don't want to get involved, I'd much rather get back to building my barge, and she's lovely and green."
Unfortunately you did get involved Nerys, by endorsing Red's extreme opinions.
That's why I was surprised. Also disappointed at the 3 (unidentified folk) who 'Liked' your post.
Sorry about the long posts, but someone had to try to put things back in perspective.
What's OK (or generally accepted) in some sparsely populated southern hemisphere countries (with dubious governments) ain't necessarily so up here where we're all a bit more crowded!
So far all the investment in and effort to find a solution to this pandemic that I have seen has come from the northern hemisphere, possible exception some studies from Australia, but all vaccine development seems to be from the North!
No offence intended to anyone or their country north or south,but that seems to be be the way it is.
Doug.

Sorry to disappoint you Doug, but red's initial post was not the first I had seen of his theory and it is accepted by an increasing number of people. I in no way dispute the horribleness of covid and frankly am pleased that I have had the jab but there are certain things that I have seen and heard in medical circles that cause me to question some of the government's pronouncements. My belief is that the government are in some way using this as an experiment in the mass control/nudging of the populace. For example, banning all but essential travel could be a way of helping with CO2 reduction. Do you really think air travel will get back to full strength, it's reduction, again, could help with CO2. But, there again, some people think that global warning is a conspiracy. I do believe in Global Warming and I do think the Americans went to the moon.
However, I'm a simple soul really, not a bit scientific and I don't want to get involved, I'd much rather get back to building my barge, and she's lovely and green.

Nerys

"People should be allowed to have a choice as the vaccines are not very effective in any event.
Why are you surprised Doug ? "
"People should be allowed to have a choice"
Up here we have a choice Red, but most folks are taking the sensible one!
I have never liked to get into political discussions (exception was a response to an unacceptable Trump type post last year- someone had to draw the line!) , so I won't now, but I'll continue to squash such discussions - until I'm voted out!😁
So; to keep this on the 'biological' 😮🙈 level!

To answer your question first Red, (and to the 3 folks who liked Nerys' surprising post),
Up to now I had considered Nerys to be a very sensible and level headed lady.
Thus I was most surprised and disappointed that she appeared to swallow your apparently ill informed comments.
Before I take your post apart an initial comment-
"This Govt is asking over 60s to register now for your jab........
..I don't think I will bother even to register but simply carry on taking basic precautions "
If this is only a political conspiracy what are you taking 'basic precautions' from?
The choice is yours. I've made mine; 1st AstraZeneca jab last Wednesday.
Why AstraZeneca?
See below, re efficiency of vaccines, where I debunk more of your ill informed comments piece by piece!

PATIENCE WARNING: Folks: The rest of this post will be somewhat longer than the usual posts!!
Stick with it. It might help someone make up their mind!
At least I hope it will set the record straight, from a northern hemisphere aspect!

"Having worked with medical researcher's for seven years learned that viruses mutate quickly "
I don't know how far back those seven years are Red but it doesn't really matter; that has been common knowledge for decades, which is why the Anti Flu vaccination has to be updated annually (had mine in November), and research on the current Corona virus SARS-2 Covid19 and variants/mutations is ongoing apace in many many labs around the world.

BTW: the 'Corona' virus type, so called, since 1968, apparently because of it's similarity in appearance to the Sun's corona when the main disc is blended out, has been known for years. Various minor and not so minor ailments are also attributed to it including the common cold -
'The scientific name Coronavirus was accepted as a genus name by the International Committee for the Nomenclature of Viruses (later renamed International Committee on Taxonomy of Viruses) in 1971. As the number of new species increased, the genus was split into four genera, namely Alphacoronavirus, Betacoronavirus, Deltacoronavirus, and Gammacoronavirus in 2009. The common name coronavirus is used to refer to any member of the subfamily Orthocoronavirinae. As of 2020, 45 species are officially recognised."

"Although it is widely believed that this is a virus produced in a lab ..."
Widely believed by whom? This theory has largely been debunked. The most likely source is generally agreed amongst leading specialists to be a mutation derived from an animal intermediate host, as was the case with Bird Flu and Swine Flu, in this case most probably a bat.
"... it has not lost it's capability to mutate as seen by the various strains already around"
Why would it lose that capability just because it has allegedly been 'synthesised'?
On the other hand, it points more towards a natural mutation through an intermediate animal host.
"... here in SA we have two - and there are many more variants around the world..........."
Is that the 'political endemic' that you are taking precautions from Red??

"Vaccinations such as those for smallpox which most of us had as kids are tried and tested for years before being put into use. These (presumably you mean the current Covid-19 vaccines Red) have all been rushed into production. " Oh come on! Spare us Red please!🙄
'The smallpox vaccine was the first vaccine to be developed against a contagious disease. In 1796, the British doctor Edward Jenner demonstrated that an infection with the relatively mild cowpox virus conferred immunity against the deadly smallpox virus. '
And Dr Jenner proved that without all the HiTech we now have!
More relevant might have been the development of the Polio vaccine Red.
THAT surely affected more of our generation.
In the last two hundred years medicinal research and production technology has advanced astronomically, esp over the last 100. Just consider the 1918 Flu epidemic!
'The death toll is typically estimated to have been somewhere between 20 million and 50 million, although estimates range from a conservative 17 million to a possible high of 100 million, making it one of the deadliest pandemics in human history.'
Back then they didn't have a clue what was wrong or of the medical instrumentation or research technology and production facilities that we now have - and millions and millions died.
And there wasn't even any jet setting around the world or cheap holiday anywhere you wanted back then! Think about that for a moment or two!
Does anyone want a repeat of that?

"A high risk friend who has had Covid was informed it is entirely possible to catch it again - she had taken every precaution possible to prevent being infected - a lass I was at school with also caught it - her husband in his eighties fighting cancer died from it - she despite just having won a battle with cancer and having moderate COPD recovered quickly. Also it seems that not all people with co morbidity succumb to Covid - and youngsters who have none do."
There are always exceptions and generic conditions which affect how any disease or immunisation will affect a particular person. One or two sad exceptions are NO justification for burying your head in the sand.

"All that and the proven fact that a vaccine developed for one strain wont work on another makes me doubt the value of any of the makes of vaccines available - so I don't think I will bother even to register but simply carry on taking basic precautions "
'the proven fact that a vaccine developed for one strain wont work on another'
On the contrary; it HAS BEEN PROVEN that Biontech, Moderna and AstraZeneca are also effective against the current mutations; so called British or South African (you can have that back!). Also development is proceeding apace on new variants, e.g. from Brazil - not just yours.
OK if you don't personally don't want to get immunised, or believe in the pandemic, on your own head be it, just don't come anywhere near Munich PLEASE!!
Red: try to relate the Covid19 numbers in SA, or your tiny community, to the many vast cities of Europe, Asia, the Americas, Australasia with millions of inhabitants, in contrast to your relatively isolated community (Pearly Beach) of approx 1000 souls at the southern tip of Africa. Your chances of coming in contact with a Covid-19 infectant are miniscule compared to ours. "Not far from Pearly Beach is Dyers Island, a breeding colony for jackass penguins.🙄"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearly_Beach

"I seriously believe that the world economy (apart from China's) has been wrecked needlessly by the lockdowns imposed - the emergency hospitals set up in the Cape were never used - the mortality rate is low and most people will be ill for a while and recover fully. Then the disease will die out as a lot of epidemiologists agree - so this would seem to be more of a political epidemic rather than a medical one........... "
Let's take this apart and look at it's elements.
"I seriously believe that the world economy (apart from China's) has been wrecked needlessly by the lockdowns imposed ..."
Reports that I have read seem to indicate that only those economies that have failed to take appropriate precautions in time, or are excessively dependant on tourism and business travel, or were incompetent/corrupt from the outset, have suffered any serious economic recession.
Bear in mind that many European countries, USA, Russia, China and India have invested billions in finding, producing and distributing the hopefully solution, or at least minimising, of this pandemic. What has your government contributed?
Also bear in mind that SA has a population of approx 60 Mio, spread over an area of ca 1,221,037 km2.
Germany, as just one contrast example, has 80+ million inhabitants (of which I am one) in just 357,022 km2. So your chances of contact with an infectious person are much lower than ours in Germany by a factor of around at least 5 (not allowing for mobility possibilities; isolation, population density, car, bus, train, plane etc!), or many areas of USA, and in my experience, also of Asia; China, Korea, much much smaller. Esp considering that most of us are living in cities of several hundred thousand to millions; e.g Munich Metro Area ~2.4 million.

"the emergency hospitals set up in the Cape were never used"
Congratulations! Was that due to low incidence of infection / illness, corresponding to low population density, lack of equipment, incompetence or what? I have seen your (and other MB members in SA comments about the SA Govt. and performance of utilities esp re electricity supply !)

"the mortality rate is low and most people will be ill for a while and recover fully."
How short sighted is that?
There are unfortunately many many documented cases where, whereas a Covid 19 illness has been survived, that the patient has suffered, and is still suffering, long term effects that prevent them from returning to their former professions and will leave them with serious effects from which they will most likely suffer for the rest of their lives.

"Then the disease will die out as a lot of epidemiologists agree - so this would seem to be more of a political epidemic rather than a medical one........... "
"Then the disease will die out as a lot of epidemiologists agree - "
Which, who?
Not one specialist that I have seen or have read about has said / written anything like that.
On the contrary; it is generally agreed that Covid-19 (like many other Corona type viruses) will be with us forever in one form or another, just like the Corona cold virus etc.
Therefore it is all the more important to take precautions now, that means us proletariat😉, and develop AND IMPLEMENT vaccines NOW, that means pharma companies and governments.
It has already been prognosticated that SARS2Covid19 will stay with us in one form or another forever, as the related common cold virus and flu viruses have for decades / centuries.
Which most likely means that we will need an annual refresher 'jab' to keep up with the newest variants - just like with the related flu virus.🤔

"so this would seem to be more of a political epidemic rather than a medical one........... "
I stand by my opening comment.
Whose politics is the pandemic benefiting? PLEASE don't come on with Trump's China Flu conspiracy! Who is paying for the consequences?
Certainly not the SA government!
Sorry about the long post folks, but someone had to draw the line and tell it like it is!
Like it or hate it, I'm afraid that's it folks.
We just gotta live with it!
Doug

"There is a great debate worldwide about having the vaccination or not."
Latest study results w.r.t. various vaccines-
Biontech/Pfizer
Latest study results (from Scotland) show that -
These vaccines reduce the risk of serious consequences and hospitalisation due to Covid-19 by 85% from the first dose.
German studies show an immunity of 58% 14 days after the first injection.
Moderna
Similar to Biontech and Pfizer; reduces the probability of a serious illness due to Covid-19 by 80% two weeks after the first vaccination.
German studies show an immunity of 52% 14 days after the first injection.
AstraZeneca (Which I and Gisela have just had😀)
The first of the two vaccinations of AstraZeneca, according to the data analysis of Scottish universities, reduces the probability of admission to hospital by up to 94%.
German studies show an immunity of 76% 22 days after the first injection.
Johnson & Johnson
Only one jab needed for full effect 😀
BUT: Typically the 'full effect' is 70% protection, effective ca 28 days after injection!🤔
NO DEBATE RED. MORE OF A NO BRAINER!😉

I don't know what filtered news / internet that you are seeing / reading down there Red but it sure don't seem to match what I'm seeing, reading and hearing from my own Doc up here.
At the end of the day - Yer pays yer money and takes yer choice!
But if you choose not to register and not to be immunised PLEASE DON'T GO ANYWHERE!
Least of all Munich!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic#Misinformation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pearly+Beach,+7220,+South+Africa/@-34.6608221,19.4983825,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x1dce1f48c502140b:0xc058e74550b59849!8m2!3d-34.6579728!4d19.4883811?hl=en

Will and Rick,
I most heartily agree 👍👍👍👍👍👍
I have never been a fan of conspiracy theories, (including the 'We were never on the moon'),
and what possible political benefit could be achieved by any country by 'artificially' creating such a situation, especially considering the billions invested in developing, purchasing and distributing the various vaccines, is totally beyond me.
Doug

Speaking as someone who has had COVID19 and thankfully not been too badly affected (so far at least), all I can say to one or two comments regarding this and whether or not to have the vaccine, is thank heavens we're all different and don't all share the same views.

Will

In 13 days there may be water at Burlington's Spencer pool & maybe the weather will be warmer and dry stay safe & happy sailing & building

Thanks Nerys - thought long and hard about this situation the world finds itself in.People should be allowed to have a choice as the vaccines are not very effective in any event.

Why are you surprised Doug ?

You surprise me Nerys! 😮
😎

Thank you redmpg for the most sensible and realistic summing up of the whole covid situation that I have seen.

Nerys

Only 13 more days till Ontario will allow many of us to go launch our winters workshop projects. Best get batteries charged, ensure fresh batteries are in the transmitter, everything is properly lubricated, and any last moment adjustments are done.

Hi Guys,

We don't want to get into the rights and wrongs or whether to have the Vaccines or not the main thing is that we all do our bit in trying to prevent the spread of this awful virus.

It looks like the world is slowly winning against this virus we just need to keep up the fight.

Stay safe.

Martin555.

Sorry but this is your view I do hope you don't get covid. 👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎
Rick

There is a great debate worldwide about having the vaccination or not. This Govt is asking over 60s to register now for your jab........

Having worked with medical researcher's for seven years learned that viruses mutate quickly - that from acknowledged world experts on the subject. Although it is widely believed that this is a virus produced in a lab it has not lost it's capability to mutate as seen by the various strains already around - here in SA we have two - and there are many more variants around the world...........

Vaccinations such as those for smallpox which most of us had as kids are tried and tested for years before being put into use. These have all been rushed into production. A high risk friend who has had Covid was informed it is entirely possible to catch it again - she had taken every precaution possible to prevent being infected - a lass I was at school with also caught it - her husband in his eighties fighting cancer died from it - she despite just having won a battle with cancer and having moderate COPD recovered quickly. Also it seems that not all people with co morbidity succumb to Covid - and youngsters who have none do.

All that and the proven fact that a vaccine developed for one strain wont work on another makes me doubt the value of any of the makes of vaccines available - so I don't think I will bother even to register but simply carry on taking basic precautions

I seriously believe that the world economy (apart from China's) has been wrecked needlessly by the lockdowns imposed - the emergency hospitals set up in the Cape were never used - the mortality rate is low and most people will be ill for a while and recover fully. Then the disease will die out as a lot of epidemiologists agree - so this would seem to be more of a political epidemic rather than a medical one...........

You're spot on there Martin, some people are so blinkered, or just plain ignorant (or should that be arrogant?🤔)

Unfortunately, all we can do is look after number 1.

Will

Will,

RE :-"I've had my jabs, I'm safe, I can get on with my life again".

Unfortunately you are 100% correct with that comment.

The amount of people that think that they are safe is surprisingly high.

I have even tried telling some of them but it's like talking to a brick wall.

It has been proven by several people that has caught Covid after having their second jab.

Martin555.

An issue that I am seeing and hearing, is people who have had their jabs and are now "I've had my jabs, I'm safe, I can get on with my life again".
It's shocking how many people are thinking that way and all generations too.
I for one will continue with social distancing and wearing a mask for a long time yet, no matter what they tell us.
Stay safe everyone and keep away from as many idiots as you can.

Will

Martin absolutely right we need to stay the course if we don't protect our selves no one else will. I believe even when most get vaccinated the covid will still be with us. It may not hit hard but if there is an underlying issue it still may cause damage.
Stay Safe Be Aware of were you are if you go out.
Rick

Martin, it's so easy to forget the easing of restrictions, locally to my area there is a new outbreak at a local fruit farm that relies on foreign workers who live on site.
They have a bus laid on to bring them shopping into Hereford 3 times a week so it's quite likely to start spreading again.
Take care all you fellow shipmates, cheers Colin.

Hi Guys,

There are far to many people that think this Covid 19 is a thing of the past as more and more restrictions are being lifted.
As for England there will be more restrictions lifted on the 16-17th of this month and travel to other countries will be permitted.

Altho it is good to see we are returning to some sort of normality it is by no means over.

So please guys be careful and stay safe, protect yourself and others.

We don't want to go through this again as these lockdowns are not fun and impact so much on peoples lives.

Take care.

Martin555.

Hi Marky.
Great to see you in print again and that things seem to be moving.
Stay safe and take great care.
Regards Bill

Hi Marky, very pleased to see that you are back in circulation. Hope, whatever treatment you are having is going well, I know some of it can be quite unpleasant, Hope you will be able to get back to modelling before long. We haven't had any snow here, we rarely do, but it has been showery and quite cold. I haven't been up to modelling for a while, I lack all energy and become breathless very easily.

Cheers, Nerys

Welcome back Marky 😀
Pleased to hear the treatment seems to be going well 👍

I had my first Covid jab today at last 😊 -
and I didn't start whizzing round the room making PHTTTTTTT noises so -
I guess I wasn't full of hot air after all 😉
Now have to wait 12 weeks for jab #2 🤔
All the best, Doug 😎

Hi Marky,
Great to hear from you.
Glad you are keeping up the good fight.
Shame about the weather.
Keep smiling and stay safe.

Martin555.

Marky, nice to find you are still keeping as well as possible, and safe from Covid.
Today I've had rain,hail, sleet and snow as well as sunshine within 30 miles, between Clee Hill and Hereford. As I had to do the grandchildren school runs.
Left Hereford at 06.45 and just got back as I had to help son with repairing his car. Not been the best day for working on a car outdoors.
Day off tomorrow, now we are fairly free to travel I need to service my car, at least I have a garage to work in.
Hoping to be getting my boats wet very soon.
Stay safe and keep in touch shipmate.
Cheers Colin.

SNOW👎👎👎👎👎 Good to hear chemo is going well Marky stay safe.
Rick

Just checking in from sunny Scotland (its actually snowing as I type) chemo's going fine just seem to feel better then its the next session, hope every ones keeping safe and enjoying the new freedoms they've been given.

Stay safe ,happy building .

Cheers Marky👍