Hello Dave,

I am unable to find a Graupner 600 Motor - all suppliers I have tried cannot get delivery from manufacturer!
However I have been able to find a Graupner 700 Eco?
Do you have any knowledge of this motor and its suitability for a Fire Tender please?
In an earlier post where you gave details of how to fit and glue the window kits, you referred to a '5 mins epoxy glue' can you elaborate on this a little Ie. a makers name etc.
Many thanks
Peteg.

Pete
the graupner motors need no extra suppression... they are factory fitted.
would also recommend you invest in a set of 2.4ghz radio, no messing with peg boards and a bullet proof performance with regard to interference etc.

db

Hello Roger,
I did strip all paint off this one hatch cover eventually and have re-primed it ready for a top coat later today.
I have to brush paint pretty well all the remainder of superstructure as spraying involves a large amount of masking -I'm hoping for some success!
Windows arrived yesterday so work is lined up now.

Pete.

Dave,
I will try to get that motor and battery set-up hopefully thro' Howes models as they are quite helpful -although their website shows that motor as out of stock.
Did you fit suppressors to the motor - did they come with the motor?
I am more comfortable with the set up you have, weight of the Lead cell always suprised me especially being located so far forward on the boat.
Pete.

Pete
I use a graupner speed 600 8.4v motor (part no 3301) on a single 9.6v battery pack. in my fireboat and my sea commnder, there is a video on here of the commander running the same set up.
howes models usually have the motors on offer for under ÂA£7 each.

dont worry about the over-voltage battery, it is within the manufacturers specified range

db

HI Pete,
As Dave says, don't use the 850/ lead acid in your boat! I have the same Graupner speed 600 (9.6) in my Sea Rover but with a three-blade prop and it runs very nicely on a 7.2v 3700ah stick. it replaced a higher revving Johnson (21,000 rpm) which almost turned the boat over! if I remember correctly the 600/9.6v has max revs of 14500, it's a very flexible motor with quite low power consumption; my run times are good although sometimes an extra couple of hundred rpm would be nice!

Old paint can be a nightmare, you never know what it could be, I just stripped it all off and started again. As for the prop shaft it's worth a try, you'll feel any excessive play as soon as you try the new shaft in the old tube. Try and remember how the old one felt then switch them over, the old shaft might well be worn around the bearings - that 0.031mm could make all the difference;-) Roger

Hello Dave,
I am taking your suggestion on board - I was quite unsure about having all that weight forward after reading so much about the shape the Fire Tenders like to take when running on a bit.
I have been helped enormously on this forum in putting together my 1st boat -
I will re-visit your video posting tonight -I have been through that section a few times already. Many thanks.

Regards
PeteG

Pete
you dont want a 12v 7ah lead battery anywhere near your 34" fireboat.. especially in the forward cabin, it would kill it!

have a look at my video on here of my fireboat running a really low cost set-up that gives a most pleasing performance for the pound..

graupner speed 600 on 7cell (9.6v) nimh battery with 20a mtronics speed controller.. standard 40mm plastic 2 blade prop

David

Hello Roger,
I have been recommended to fit a Torpedo 850 Motor with a 12v 7Ahr gel cell battery!
The dimensions of the battery allow it to fit in the forward compartment below the wheelhouse - and unlikely to fit anywhere else. I wonder if this will cause a problem to the boats sailing/planing position by having so much weight forward?
With regard to the prop shaft I am going to fit a new M4 threaded shaft and hope it runs smoothly in the existing tube.
Have had big problems with paint today - blistering over the old paint which forced me to strip all paint off to bare wood. Halfords I thought was supposed to be quite useable? Halfords brush on grey primer very hard to use too- dries rapidly.

Regards
Pete.

HI Pete, I have used M4 nuts on the old tread in the past, once there is a lock-nut in place against the coupling it all seems pretty secure and the couplings do have a decent thread length. To date no problems! in reality the boats don't get used all that often so I just check them periodically to make sure all is well. I have a two blade prop fitted but sadly the boat is still 'work in progress' so no chance to test it yet, I may change the motor as well - still looking into that! Roger

Hello Roger,
Yes, my prop shaft did measure as you say 5/32". I did think that an M4 nut over this thread would be far too sloppy- so this means that in order to fit a motor coupling I would need to replace this prop shaft with an M4 shaft. As you say the difference in dia's is indiscernible.
Hopefully the shaft quoted at Howes 10" M4 will be that length!
Do you use a 2 blade prop?

Thanks for the info.
Regards,
Pete.

HI Pete, if it's the original shaft it's probably 5/32", this is 0.031mm smaller than a 4mm/M4 shaft - so almost indiscernible. in the past I've cheated sometimes, if the original old 5/32 shaft is a bit worn at the bearings, pitted or bent I've bought an M4 shaft, tried it in to see if it's OK and if so used it in the original tube! I did this on my Aerokits Solent lifeboat and it worked a treat but the lengths must match.
If it's still too loose I've removed the whole lot, they do come out easier than you think in most cases. I've removed the old resin at both ends, made sure there is none left on the tube and twisted/pulled VERY gently with pliers from the stern. I did change the shaft and tube on my Fireboat.
When you buy a shaft remember the length quoted will be the length of the tube, not the shaft. Also check the outside diameter of the tube as some of the newer stainless shafts also have a much smaller diameter stainless outer tube. You can get stainless inners with older style brass outers, some ebay listings also quote the O/D of the outer tube.
Replacing the inner shaft with M4 threads will give a better choice of props.
Regards, Roger

Hello Roger,
DaveM and yourself have been most helpful in simplifying the idea that I had for covering this space! Thanks to both. I have not found any liteply yet tho.

Roger, you are quite right I have to replace the piece you refer to - it was loose and I have dislodged it further. That was why I bought the ply I referred to earlier!
Your cover does look very neat. As does the whole interior.

I am trying to identify the thread size on the prop shaft so that I can order the motor and coupling tomorrow. it measures up as an M4 but cannot verify as yet. Am I right in thinking that if I bought a new shaft I should buy the tube with it as a pair? I don't really want to replace the tube tho'!
Peteg.

HI Pete, much the same as DaveM. Had to make a piece, mine sits a bit high, Dave's is better placed I think but too late now!!
You'll need to replace the upper bulkhead piece that forms the front of the rear cabin piece, you may well have that as I think they have a tendency to fall out when the glue gets tired (mine did!) Roger

HI Pete
Yes this is where the IC engine sat and was left open. I put a plain piece of liteply in my space supported by 1/8" formers underneath, attached to the cabin sides. I can therefore remove the whole piece to get at the motor.
Dave

I have only just noticed that I appear to be missing a cover on my Boat - it is the one that covers, I presume, where the engine is fitted amidships. Can anyone tell me if it is a removable cover and perhaps post a picture of the cover itself and how it sits on the superstructure?

Or perhaps it is just decking? I have included a picture - a short cover missing, directly over the red engine mounting blocks?
Many thanks,
Peteg

Hello Dave,
I have managed to salvage the ply by clamping it over the weekend since I have been away!
Motor and controls is my task next week - once I have prepared the mounting position I can get on with painting - great fun.
Pete.

HI Pete
Seems like you are getting down to the nitty gritty. Marine ply is bonded with a waterproof resin so will not delaminate when wet. All ply is liable to warp when wet as the different woods in the ply absorb more or less moisture. Good practice is to leave wood in the environment where you intend to use it for 24hrs to allow it to acclimatise before you start to work on it. if you wish to salvage the remains they should straighten out if you apply gentle heat ( you may need steam) and allow to dry whilst clamped between two flat pieces of wood.
Dave

I have been cutting some ply for a bulkhead repair to my Fire boat and left the remains in garage overnight only to find that it has warped quite badly.
Would you expect ply to warp in an out of water environment!? Does marine ply warp? Perhaps it wasn't marine ply!
PeteG

HI Pete, The mast looks great! well worth it. if you need some M2 stainless screws and small brass nuts I have spare ones.
The hook and winch are real top notch, mine are plastic! They must be original and would have been expensive items at the time - they still would be if you could find anything as good.
I'm still thinking about window frames, the small side windows had no frame but just a small drip rail over the top edge. I might try the others, as yet undecided - another coat of paint to go on yet.
I've got some pictures and diagrams you might find useful, if you wish send me your email address through 'my messages' I'll get back to you by return.
Roger

Hello Roger,

Thanks for the tips! I was wondering about how I would make room for motor should the mounts be too large - I don't really want to remove any superstructure at this time. I need the motor to get going on this.
I have been making a brass semI circ runner for the hook to sit on - how authentic I don't know. Here is a picture of some of my brass fittings -I Imagine the hook and winch are originals?
Also my home made mast and mast support!
Bought some liteply to replace a damaged bulkhead , now need modellers pins!
Yes, I have noted that one has to treat these older models rather more gently as I progress! Glued joints are moving a little.
Did you not fit window frames to your boat ?- I was looking at the kit for sale on this website.

P....

HI Pete, Looks like a nice straight boat you have there - and no mice! I see what you mean about the deck.

The engine mounts do look close together. On mine I had to carve away the rear block to get the length of the motor in, you may be able to carve the sides. Carefully drill down along the inner edges and take out the rest with a small chisel or modelling knife - put a piece of tape round the drill to mark the depth so you don't go through the bottom!
I have found on some other boats that when you start to apply pressure the old glue gives way and out they come!

I made the piece round the towing hook from plasticard, it's not totally accurate but added a bit more detail, the hook I have is an original from the Mersey Marine fitting kit which could be bought for the boat 'back in the day'

I also notice you have the original Keil Kraft marker lights still on, my lights are the same ones but I cut off the tail and rounded them up as in the picture. The size and shape worked better for me!

Roger

Hello Roger,
Very nice record of your restoration. I was particularly interested in pic 4 and the clean interior. I have included some pics of my boat in rather shabbier paint work!
I'm not sure about the large motor mounting blocks whether they will prove to be too bulky for an electric motor or that the angle may be a bit steep for the coupling. Not having the motor yet doesn't help!
Do you notice the round hatch cover on top? Slight variation there. I am also puzzled as to what actually fits underneath the tow hook at stern - what mechanical/metal parts do you have fitted?

Pete.

HI Pete, this is how mine started off last autumn. Arrived from Scotland with a mouses nest in one end and their toilet in the other!! Luckily no mice were included but that combined with old fuel from an IC engine took some serious cleaning out
It seems to have taken an age but will be worth it as the last couple of pictures hopefully show :-)
Roger

Hello Roger,
I quite agree -both lights do combine to make 1 very suitable searchlight. Thanks for the assy tips.
I have been rubbing down paintwork today - the deck of my boat is natural wood veneer with a varnish coat - this will look superb when I get round to applying a fresh coat .

I suppose I am some way off that task yet!

Motor and electrics will be next operation.
Pete.

HI Pete, I used two light to make one. The main body, bulb and the round stand base are from a Robbe 20mm pt. no. 1374. The glass, the bezel and upper part of the stand are from a Reade Models P15 medium searchlight (http://www.reademodels.com/page36.html) I 'cut and shut' the stand and fixed with epoxy to get the round base combined with the neater curve of the upper half of the Reade stand, it also allowed me to shorten it as both lights seemed a little too high to me. Hope this helps. Roger

Hello Roger,
I have completed the mast but without the fillets. I silver soldered complete,and will attach to cabin with plastic angle from B&Q ! it ended up being 110mm high x 75mm width across feet. I too have used small screws for assy but have allowed for it to fold down to rest on mast support which came with my boat!
I haven't given any thought to possible wiring snags -need to get the mast lamp first!
Do you know where to obtain a searchlight by any chance?
The Tenders do look good with that fitting.
Pete.

mast plan showing stiffining

peter

HI PeteG, regarding colours, try this link

http://modelfireboats.com/forum/thread.php?thread=3832#3856

I also had questions regarding superstructure colour and received some great help from members. I've ended up using Barley Grey, Humbrol 167 which looks pretty good.
Roger

HI PeteG,
Hope that mast is going well! I fixed mine with small stainless screws and brass nuts (from an old Tamiya RC car!) With some modifications it could be made to fold down but I've chosen to make it rigid as it would have changed the shape of the thin wooden fairings and made the wiring for the mast light more difficult and perhaps liable to break in the casing. The screws do allow some adjustment to get it vertical since the roof section has a gentle slope towards the front, the 'feet' are made from aluminium angle from B&Q.
Roger

HI PeteG
If you look at some other posts the general consensus appears to be a grey superstructure, black hull and red to the waterline. Opinions differ on exact shades so take your pick!
I use Lipo with the brushless set up as they are very hungry current wise and NiMh or Lead Acid would be much heavier.
We have several members in my club using brushless with NiMh and they normally weigh a lot less than lead acid, and can fit in a much smaller space!
Resin can increase the weight if applied too thickly and coating the outside will add to the weight and may not be required. I just used sanding sealer on my outside hull followed by acrylic spray paint after rubbing smooth with wet and dry sand paper. By coating the inside you will prevent any water from attacking (saturating) the wood from inside, and provide extra support for the ply skins attached to the formers.
Weight is Important in a 34" model and marine ply can be replaced with Liteply for superstructure and will keep your model nice and light and lively!
Good luck with your club and model shop.
Dave

Hello Dave,
I am underway with the water test at the moment. I have completed the mast today and it has been very successful I must say.
The colour scheme of my model differs in as much as the superstructure is largely black! Was that ever an official colour scheme do you know?
I note you are using Lipo battery pack - is this because of weight being too much with lead acid?
Yes, I now belong to Bluewater Boating club joining only recently and the model shop I will likely be using is at Chatham Dockyard appropriately!
I am optimistic that both will be very helpful - I expect to have plenty of questions!
Is it useful to apply resin to inside of hull and not outside?
Would you use marine ply for general superstructure repairs as opposed to any other?

Pete.

HI PeteG
Paint can be very deceptive and can cover a multitude of problems. Very fine cracks can occur at the glued joints and water will find its way under the paint, so please check very carefully after you have had the hull in the water for (say) 1 hour. The resin is standard car repair resin used with a catalyst hardener as sold by many car spares suppliers. My local supplier has Davids Fastplas resin in 500ml yellow cans. You need to also buy the catalyst. Sets in approx 20 mins so you should only mix small amounts at any one time. Having mixed the liquid pour into the hull, which you then rotate to spread the resin around the inside of the boat. Latex gloves are useful to protect your hands and make sure you are in a well ventilated area as the fumes can cause breathing difficulties. Best done in the garden on a warm day as it can take ages for the resin to set in cold conditions. Please read the instructions carefully. I find that some very gentle heat after pouring helps to thin the resin and allows for a thinner (lighter) coating.
I actually had to replace my rear transom but the exhaust hole can be filled with a wood fillet fitted into the hole and supported by a wood plate glued inside the hull. Or you can repair with fiberglass just like a rust hole in a car body.
The lower small pipe is the water intake for the cooling system and may be needed if you are fitting a water cooled motor or ESC. There should be a similar small pipe in the side of the hull adjacent to the engine bay, but it may also be at the rear with the exhaust. When you buy your motor you will know if you need water cooling.
My model has a small brushless motor and uses a Lipo battery but this is not necessary and maybe not for a novice. As Db said in an earlier post there are many setup details on this site that will give you help. Are you in a model club? is your local model shop a specialist in model boats? Either would be a good local source of helpful information to get your model on the water.
Good luck
Dave

Hello Dave,
I think it was your photo's from an earlier posting that has enabled me to have a go at making my own mast!
I too quite like working with brass, brazing & soldering.
The finished item looks great on your boat - did you make the mast so that it can fold down onto a support? if so how did you hinge the legs?

Tomorrow I start the brass work and jigs there will be!
Many thanks.
PeteG

HI Pete, I had the same problem, here are a few pictures of my home made mast. it's well worth while 'jigging' the whole thing up on a piece of wood and locating the various sections with panel pins. Great fun and very rewarding! 😊 Roger

Hello Dave,

Looking at the condition of my boat -the Hull & interior wood both look sound -however I have not yet done a 'bath' test to verify it is waterproof. I would like to know what is this resin you used inside hull as I too have obvious fuel spillages doing whatever to the wood! I would feel happier to reseal the inside with this resin compound and as you say better now than when all completed.
I might even take the plunge and strip all paint off the Hull.
Did you remove or fill in the holes at the stern where the exhaust was situated. I also have a small dia pipe protruding from hull next to the rudder which will have to be sealed/reomved too.
I will post more pics as I progress - next week I buy the Motor, Esc and battery when I have decided what type to go for. What motor did you decide on?

PeteG

Pete
Welcome to the site.
I restored an ex IC model crash tender and needed to replace the prop shaft and repair the hull and interior where the fuel had damaged the wood. I also stripped all the paint off the hull and sealed the outside with sanding sealer and resin spread (run) inside the hull. Easier to do this at the start as leaks are difficult to fix later in your restoration.
Good luck with the restoration. I look forward to seeing how you progress
Dave

Pete
I have some spare cowl vents, pm me your address and I will pop you one in the post.

as for electric motor choice there is a whole section on here listing different power set-ups..
take a look at the video and build blog section for ideas too

db

HI Chris,
Thanks for that information. Today I have started to make my own mast thanks to the photos on the 'Mast' entry on the Forum you referred me to.
I am doing initially, a part renovation that involves removing the fuel engine and replacing with all Electric kit.
My main concern at the moment is fitting the most suitable elect. motor in order to get the best performance and duration from the boat! Any suggestions for motors and batteries?
Couple of pics from day 1.

HI Peter

Welcome to the site, the mast problem is similar for both sizes of Fireboat and has been pretty well covered recently with most of us producing our own. Have a look at the 'Mast Assembly Link' in the 'Fireboat Chit Chat' section of the Forum.

A pretty full set of other white metal fittings ( but no mast ! ) is available for the 34" boat from the Model Slipway in Barnsley

Good luck, and keep us informed of how you get on.
Best Wishes
Chris